I’ve had people say that I accuse all GPT programs on here as being scams. Although this isn’t true, I am wary of most sites, especially the new ones probably because 90% of them sadly turn out to be scams. And now I’m starting to believe that when invex group claimed they owned dozens of the top sites, closing down some, while opening others, it is absolutely true. I believe sasho was part of this same group, and as I read these posts, it’s becoming more and more eerily clear to me that they are all mmg members and possibly running 2 out of 4 of these sites on here as we speak. Now, before I get flamed to death, invest wherever you see fit, just keep in mind certain, very subtle trends that I’ve noticed about them that you should be wary of.
1) The admin or supporter or consultant, or whatever they call themselves, who comes on here promoting the site always has very poor English, bad grammar, communication, and typing skills, not just in this forum, but on the site as well. Of course this isn't always the case with all programs, but seems to be very common.
2) He/she often works in groups in each thread, all posing as members. The head person/admin/consultant/spokesperson often comes across as very friendly, almost overly friendly, and a few others who's sole purpose is to keep the fervor going and flame anyone making inquires or critical comments about the site and its policies. A tag team that's almost comical to watch. Watch them carefully, you'll definitely see the pattern.
3) He/she always urges people to promote the site, bring people to the thread, practically demands support, and emphasizes referrals. They strongly urge people to quickly upgrade while the momentum is building.
4) Often times the main person says that they aren’t necessarily the admin, that they communicate with another person/friend/partner/group, who takes care of admin tasks and finances. Although, this becomes contradictory in time when it becomes apparent that they have the magic ability to fix and correct admin problems and finances themselves.
5) The site that they're promoting instantly changes upgrade and cashout policies, in most cases, within that day
6) They always compare themselves to 12DP, or that one day they hope to be better than 12DP, and overly claim their dominance in the industry.
7) Always check their registrar whois. If it's a scam, 9 times out of 10, you will find flaws and discrepencies in the information.
Just a few clues folks. Be careful. You’ve been warned
Full Version: Trends and signs to look out for
MoneyMakerGroup Forum > MoneyMakerGroup Announcements & Discussion > Community Discussions > General Chat
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QUOTE(davidscript @ Dec 1 2005, 08:21 AM) I’ve had people say that I accuse all GPT programs on here as being scams. Although this isn’t true, I am wary of most sites, especially the new ones probably because 90% of them sadly turn out to be scams. And now I’m starting to believe that when invex group claimed they owned dozens of the top sites, closing down some, while opening others, it is absolutely true. I believe sasho was part of this same group, and as I read these posts, it’s becoming more and more eerily clear to me that they are all mmg members and possibly running 2 out of 4 of these sites on here as we speak. Now, before I get flamed to death, invest wherever you see fit, just keep in mind certain, very subtle trends that I’ve noticed about them that you should be wary of. 1) The admin or supporter or consultant, or whatever they call themselves, that comes on here promoting the site always has very poor English and bad communication skills 2) He/she always comes across as very friendly, almost overly friendly, and always avoids inquiries about the site and its policies or defends against criticism about the program in a friendly manner. But that can quickly change and sometimes they get easily angered at certain questions 3) He/she always urges people to promote the site, bring peole to the thread, and strongly emphasizes referrals. They strongly urge people to quickly upgrade while the momentum is building 4) He/she always says that they aren’t necessarily the admin, that they communicate with another person/friend/partner, who takes care of admin tasks and finances. Although, this becomes contradictory in time when it becomes apparent that they have the ability to fix and correct admin problems and finances 5) The site that they're promoting instantly changes upgrade and cashout policies, in most cases, within that day 6) They always compare themselves to 12DP, or that one day they hope to be better than 12DP Just a few clues folks. Be careful. You’ve been warned [right][snapback]621176[/snapback][/right] No you are not off-base here. I agree with you 110%. 
thanks David for the info.
Thanks, jsully, for reinputting the text ...
Thanks for posting this.
As a new GPT investor, I'm grateful for all the guidance I can get.
 funny but true
well now that the scammers see this they will change the way they do things so be careful no mater what lol
QUOTE(goldicon @ Dec 1 2005, 01:56 PM) well now that the scammers see this they will change the way they do things so be careful no mater what lol [right][snapback]621796[/snapback][/right] If they are going to change things, they should start by taking an english course first so they can learn to read and write. This might make their lies more realistic and believable.  QUOTE(Candice @ Dec 1 2005, 10:13 AM) Thanks for posting this. [right][snapback]621612[/snapback][/right] No problem  I'll keep the list updated periodically as I find the clues. And evryone is encouraged to list your own clues... we need all the info we can get, not to panic, but to be much more successful investors .gif)
QUOTE(goldicon @ Dec 1 2005, 10:56 AM) well now that the scammers see this they will change the way they do things so be careful no mater what lol [right][snapback]621796[/snapback][/right] Good point, goldicon, but time is a factor for them. The less time their site remains up, the less time people have of investigating, making inquiries, and spotting the flaws, so you see, they have very little time and opportunity to develop more sophisticated ways to do this. Of course, not every clue here proves beyond a doubt that a program is scrupulous. But they are very methodical, and a forum like this is the perfect way to build confidence and start a fervor building before anyone has time to catch on. True, they may revise some of their tactics, but these people are in the business of making money as cheaply and quickly as possible and there are only so many ways of doing this, that can’t be spotted by the prudent investor.
Watch out for the cry baby admins. I have been on a couple ( surplex1 for and example) where the admin has a sob story for everything. So if you join wait for a while and see what kind of emails the admins send out. A surf site should be professional it is about making money. Since it is a "Company" that is to pay me I dont want to here cry baby stories I just want to do my job, get paid and go on with my day.
QUOTE(fkeating @ Dec 2 2005, 08:51 AM) Watch out for the cry baby admins. I have been on a couple ( surplex1 for and example) where the admin has a sob story for everything. So if you join wait for a while and see what kind of emails the admins send out. A surf site should be professional it is about making money. Since it is a "Company" that is to pay me I dont want to here cry baby stories I just want to do my job, get paid and go on with my day. [right][snapback]623152[/snapback][/right] well put
One other thing as a hint for new people. Test invest!!!! Unless you are 100% sure ( is any one really ) only put in a min investment let it grow. Also do the math you should always get at least 1 payment a month as an upgraded user. The min cashout should be reachable after 1 month of surfing. Also dont get excited Most of the scam sites I been suckered by Pay for the 1st month maybe 2 then poof they are either gone or start having problems. So test the water for a couple to three months and see what happens. loosing $10 for 3 months is much better than the $800 I have lost in the last 2 months because I was too excited.
MMG member in the introduction, seems to be the kiss of death.
Pete QUOTE(fkeating @ Dec 1 2005, 08:51 PM) Watch out for the cry baby admins. I have been on a couple ( surplex1 for and example) where the admin has a sob story for everything. So if you join wait for a while and see what kind of emails the admins send out. A surf site should be professional it is about making money. Since it is a "Company" that is to pay me I dont want to here cry baby stories I just want to do my job, get paid and go on with my day. [right][snapback]623152[/snapback][/right] You don't even want to see some of the emails from weekly-payday!  wahh wahh.Well in October I was saying that the sign of a good reputable site was (after longevity & consistant payouts) that the admin was open with their members, ran forums, gave lots of announcements, etc. basically that the admins were "there" for the members. It's awfully funny that shortly after that this trend seemed to take off and admins started joining forums, really interacting with members and so on. It almost makes me wonder if some scammers didn't read one of my husbands posts or my posts somewhere and decide to use it to their advantage. Now only time and consistant paying will tell. Especially after just reading about Amigosurf where the admin had been a member here for several months and gained a lot of people's trust. I am on 4 now that seem good. Two are older programs (they're in my sig) and two are newer but not brand new. I just cannot trust any new sites any more no matter what the admins do or say. It's unfortunate but true.
Watch out for those that start with a bang such as 2WS and AS. 12 DP, on the other hand when they started raised a lot of doubts but garnered confidence by their performance over time.
Test spending is the most important aspects of all these: -
In order to make sure things are proper I always 1) Invest very little in test spend for the first 3 payments 2) Will give a gap of atleast 7 days before upgrading after receiving payment (Meanwhile I will watch the program's growth) 3) Never ever compound my money in any program except aussieearners (This makes sure that whether really the program is paying or not) 4) Diversifying in a manner which others can't even imagine. For example I will invest $20 in 40 websites rather than puting $100 in 8 websites Still I lose a lot like $2 upto $10 because I test spend a lot in almost every new website. Now a days I got used to lose these small money  The situation is keep on worsening. I use to surf more than 40 websites (All with decent and healthy investment). Now alas only 14 with healthy investment and balance all are $2 to $10 category. But it gone upto surfing 50 websites now (some websites as free member) In final words I always stick on to the Industry basic golden rules. Spread the egg in different baskets & never ever try to invest which you cannot afford to lose  Thanks for davidscript to start an innovative thread like this 
QUOTE(Lisa111 @ Dec 1 2005, 07:44 PM) You don't even want to see some of the emails from weekly-payday! wahh wahh.Basic emails are great. They let me know what is going on. I dont want to hear that the admin is sick with the flu etc. I do want to hear things like New forum added etc. Having the admins in talking to people and being in the public is nice ( I am doing it right now ) but just because an admin talks to people dose not mean they are honest. The only way to truely tell is when they put the money in the members accounts month after month.
Very impressive thread.
 Thanks so much Davidscript for starting this "scam eye-opening" discussion. I am sure with members imput/advice we will all benefit. I would also like to say that I totally agree with the, so called, test spend. I am down to only 10 programs now (lost 4 in the past 2-3 weeks)  Jumping in with both feet is not such a great idea! Sometimes it is hard because the excitement gets the better of me! Anyway, Good Luck to everyone and I hope this thread continues to grow. I know I will be reading it!! 
QUOTE(Gizmo @ Dec 1 2005, 02:16 PM) If they are going to change things, they should start by taking an english course first so they can learn to read and write. This might make their lies more realistic and believable. [right][snapback]621871[/snapback][/right] Okay, so would you invest or join this guys/girls program?? "How to Invest in Internet: Why? Because a lot of people like you and me, money does not exceed to us when day 30 arrives of every month. Through some Websites we can get to obtain an amount of money that is allowing to us to generate benefits in one or two months, everything depends from which you are arranged to risk something of your money or you only want to invest what you obtain to work with the Web."
moving to General Chat section
Cool...
Thanks for the wonderful input from the more experienced members around here. The points raised are very beneficial to newer members, and I hope we can all make it tougher and tougher for scammers to scam us. I seriously hate scammers who cannot complete a proper sentence. Can't stand losing money, however small, to such scums... But then, sh1t happens... 
QUOTE(davidscript @ Dec 2 2005, 01:21 AM) 1) The admin or supporter or consultant, or whatever they call themselves, that comes on here promoting the site always has very poor English and bad communication skills, of course this isn't always the case with all porgrams, but seems to be very common.[right][snapback]621176[/snapback][/right] Looks like we need strong spell AND grammar checkers when posting...
Some of the suggestions here are not exactly right according to my experience... the thing about test spends for example. The later you spend in a ponzi, the closer you are to the program's death.
So wasting your time and money doing test spends is not such a good idea. Of course I'm not saying hit as hard as you can a program for which you don't know the admin but as soon as you are sure the admin is not into running away as soon as he cans, and growth prospects are positive for the time you need to get your investment out just aim well and hit as hard as you can. If other already took the trouble of doing test spends, then don't do it yourself again. Learn from their experience! Jason QUOTE(LD_Admin_Jason @ Dec 1 2005, 10:00 PM) Some of the suggestions here are not exactly right according to my experience... the thing about test spends for example. The later you spend in a ponzi, the closer you are to the program's death. So wasting your time and money doing test spends is not such a good idea. Of course I'm not saying hit as hard as you can a program for which you don't know the admin but as soon as you are sure the admin is not into running away as soon as he cans, and growth prospects are positive for the time you need to get your investment out just aim well and hit as hard as you can. If other already took the trouble of doing test spends, then don't do it yourself again. Learn from their experience! Jason [right][snapback]623859[/snapback][/right] This is my take on it. I disagree first off with LD_Admin_Jason, I believe in doing a test spend no matter what. If you have a core group of people say 3 to 5 that spread the test among themselves then great, but for the most part a test spend gets you in and gets you in a position to see what the program will do, how the admin handles things and so on...again..my opinion. The one thing that I think people are forgetting about with these autosurf programs is that for the most part they are sustainable and relatively secure...I know alot of that relies on the admin. (Poor leadership=poor program) If program is good it will stay around and it will still have the same payout 3 months from now as it did when it began. I really feel that alot of us still have a hangover from the doubler days, in that we need to get in right away with as much as we can, and then get out...with a good autosurf program it really does not matter when you get in. You still get the same payout. unless you include referral commissions, but that is another story. In fact I think for some of these newer programs it is better not to hit them with alot of $$$ right off the bat and let them get their feet under them. Speakig from experience, the only real way that you learn how to run any kind of a program is by sitting in the pilots seat and going for it. Sure support people are good to have and research and all of that, but if you look at most of the admins that are running these programs...they have never run an autosurf before..ever! Many of them have run businesses or other programs but not autosurfs. So what am I saying....(I am not sure either ) No really, I am saying this. Why don't we as members of MMG get out of the get rich quick mentality. Get a 2 or 3 year plan down to reach a certain financial goal and then invest in some of these programs sparingly. Watch the program for 2 to 3 months compound as you see fit, give the admin as much help as you can and lets see if we can get another 12DP going or maybe 3 or 4. If we did that, it would help all of our 2 to 3 year goals come to fruition.Well I have managed to write a book here. Post more thoughts. PM me if you want to visit. This is a really godd thread to watch, there are alot of good ideas here. Best regards! QUOTE(wasatch9 @ Dec 1 2005, 09:24 PM) This is my take on it. I disagree first off with LD_Admin_Jason, I believe in doing a test spend no matter what. If you have a core group of people say 3 to 5 that spread the test among themselves then great, but for the most part a test spend gets you in and gets you in a position to see what the program will do, how the admin handles things and so on...again..my opinion. The one thing that I think people are forgetting about with these autosurf programs is that for the most part they are sustainable and relatively secure...I know alot of that relies on the admin. (Poor leadership=poor program) If program is good it will stay around and it will still have the same payout 3 months from now as it did when it began. I really feel that alot of us still have a hangover from the doubler days, in that we need to get in right away with as much as we can, and then get out...with a good autosurf program it really does not matter when you get in. You still get the same payout. unless you include referral commissions, but that is another story. In fact I think for some of these newer programs it is better not to hit them with alot of $$$ right off the bat and let them get their feet under them. Speakig from experience, the only real way that you learn how to run any kind of a program is by sitting in the pilots seat and going for it. Sure support people are good to have and research and all of that, but if you look at most of the admins that are running these programs...they have never run an autosurf before..ever! Many of them have run businesses or other programs but not autosurfs. So what am I saying....(I am not sure either ) No really, I am saying this. Why don't we as members of MMG get out of the get rich quick mentality. Get a 2 or 3 year plan down to reach a certain financial goal and then invest in some of these programs sparingly. Watch the program for 2 to 3 months compound as you see fit, give the admin as much help as you can and lets see if we can get another 12DP going or maybe 3 or 4. If we did that, it would help all of our 2 to 3 year goals come to fruition.Well I have managed to write a book here. Post more thoughts. PM me if you want to visit. This is a really godd thread to watch, there are alot of good ideas here. Best regards! [right][snapback]623923[/snapback][/right] I would agree with most of what you are saying. There seems to be a difference in growth patterns comparing doublers/hyips and autosurfers. Good point there. Still, my point stands that while some are busy moving small sums and compounding, others who had the vision are just hitting the withdraw button. Autosurfers are still ponzis at the end of the day and old concept of first in first out still applies. It's too hard to find patterns to identify scams as we are always analyzing what the scams last month looked like, but we should be forecasting what the scams next month will look like. Most importantly... we shouldn't post these thoughts because scammers are carefully reading all these threads and making sure their next scam doesn't fall into any of the categories described here. They are like viruses constantly mutating to fight vaccines and antibodies. Jason QUOTE(fkeating @ Dec 1 2005, 06:01 PM) One other thing as a hint for new people. Test invest!!!! Unless you are 100% sure ( is any one really ) only put in a min investment let it grow. [right][snapback]623179[/snapback][/right] "Test invests" or quick money in and out, maybe good for seasoned pros, but not for newbs who come into these forums reading pages and pages of "ok, I put in a test," "ooo, me too," "smooth surf, looks good, I'm in," "I'm in too." Then when the site closes, what's the newb gonna think? QUOTE(LD_Admin_Jason @ Dec 2 2005, 02:14 AM) I would agree with most of what you are saying. There seems to be a difference in It's too hard to find patterns to identify scams as we are always analyzing what the scams last month looked like, but we should be forecasting what the scams next month will look like. Most importantly... we shouldn't post these thoughts because scammers are carefully reading all these threads and making sure their next scam doesn't fall into any of the categories described here. [right][snapback]624920[/snapback][/right] I have yet to find one single scam on here that didn't have obvious warning signs in the beginning, or fit at least some of the signs that I listed on the first page. And like I said previously, scammers best stragedy is to keep their site up and generate as many suckers as quickly and as cheaply as possible. Not many sophisticated ways you can do this other than how they've been doing it over and over again. QUOTE(Gizmo @ Dec 1 2005, 08:16 PM) If they are going to change things, they should start by taking an english course first so they can learn to read and write. This might make their lies more realistic and believable. [right][snapback]621871[/snapback][/right] I think that the broken English is only to make people think they come from some strange land while being quite good inEnglish. Read the posts on these late scam programs and you'll find that sometimes they start with very poor English which suddenly becomes quite fine language. Perhaps it's difficult to keep up the mask, so they slip Anyway this thread is important. We should never forget that the scammers are lurking everywhere trying to get us in their dirty claws 
oops, my bad
QUOTE(davidscript @ Dec 1 2005, 08:21 AM) I’ve had people say that I accuse all GPT programs on here as being scams. Although this isn’t true, I am wary of most sites, especially the new ones probably because 90% of them sadly turn out to be scams. And now I’m starting to believe that when invex group claimed they owned dozens of the top sites, closing down some, while opening others, it is absolutely true. I believe sasho was part of this same group, and as I read these posts, it’s becoming more and more eerily clear to me that they are all mmg members and possibly running 2 out of 4 of these sites on here as we speak. Now, before I get flamed to death, invest wherever you see fit, just keep in mind certain, very subtle trends that I’ve noticed about them that you should be wary of. 1) The admin or supporter or consultant, or whatever they call themselves, who comes on here promoting the site always has very poor English, bad grammar, communication, and typing skills, not just in this forum, but on the site as well. Of course this isn't always the case with all programs, but seems to be very common. 2) He/she often works in groups in each thread, all posing as members. The head person/admin/consultant/spokesperson often comes across as very friendly, almost overly friendly, and a few others who's sole purpose is to keep the fervor going and flame anyone making inquires or critical comments about the site and its policies. A tag team that's almost comical to watch. Watch them carefully, you'll definitely see the pattern. 3) The other "fake" members will often imitate legimate members, "Looks good," "Smooth surf," etc., and go overboard about upgrading and being "paid". 4) He/she always urges people to promote the site, bring people to the thread, practically demands support, and emphasizes referrals. They strongly urge people to quickly upgrade while the momentum is building. 5) Often times the main person says that they aren’t necessarily the admin, that they communicate with another person/friend/partner/group, who takes care of admin tasks and finances. Although, this becomes contradictory in time when it becomes apparent that they have the magic ability to fix and correct admin problems and finances themselves. 6) The site that they're promoting instantly changes upgrade and cashout policies, in most cases, within that day 7) They always compare themselves to 12DP, or that one day they hope to be better than 12DP, and overly claim their dominance in the industry. 8) Always check their registrar whois. If it's a scam, 9 times out of 10, you will find flaws and discrepencies in the information. Just a few clues folks. Be careful. You’ve been warned [right][snapback]621176[/snapback][/right] Sorry I had to repost this, but I had an update and couldn't use the edit option 
i wouldnt really agree with the first one
although its true but you can see all those big scammers like gci and etc were professionally designed u and i r being watched too in here b careful
QUOTE(edatamerge @ Dec 1 2005, 06:49 PM) Test spending is the most important aspects of all these: - In order to make sure things are proper I always 1) Invest very little in test spend for the first 3 payments [right][snapback]623331[/snapback][/right] Also keep in mind that "test spending," is just false security, because most scams do pay at first, for months in many cases, to get more and more people to join.
it is true.. so better watch out!
More updates...
I’ve had people say that I accuse all GPT programs on here as being scams. Although this isn’t true, I am wary of most sites, especially the new ones probably because 90% of them sadly turn out to be scams. And now I’m starting to believe that when invex group claimed they owned dozens of the top sites, closing down some, while opening others, it is absolutely true. I believe sasho was part of this same group, and as I read these posts, it’s becoming more and more eerily clear to me that they are all mmg members and possibly running 2 out of 4 of these sites on here as we speak. Now, before I get flamed to death, invest wherever you see fit, just keep in mind certain, very subtle trends that I’ve noticed about them that you should be wary of. 1) The admin or supporter or consultant, or whatever they call themselves, who comes on here promoting the site always has very poor English, bad grammar, communication, and typing skills, not just in this forum, but on the site as well. Of course this isn't always the case with all programs, but seems to be very common. 2) He/she often works in groups in each thread, all posing as members. The head person/admin/consultant/spokesperson often comes across as very friendly, almost overly friendly, and a few others who's sole purpose is to keep the fervor going and flame anyone making inquires or critical comments about the site and its policies. A tag team that's almost comical to watch. Watch them carefully, you'll definitely see the pattern. 3) The other "fake" members will often imitate legimate members, "Looks good," "Smooth surf," etc., and go overboard about upgrading and being "paid". 4) He/she always urges people to promote the site, bring people to the thread, practically demands support, and emphasizes referrals. They strongly urge people to quickly upgrade while the momentum is building. 5) Often times the main person says that they aren’t necessarily the admin, that they communicate with another person/friend/partner/group, who takes care of admin tasks and finances. This might be a way to buy some time so they can come up with some excuse or answer to a question or problem that they don't readily have. Although, this becomes contradictory in time when it becomes apparent that they have the magic ability to fix and correct admin problems and finances themselves. 6) The site that they're promoting instantly changes upgrade and cashout policies, in most cases, within that day 7) They always compare themselves to 12DP, or that one day they hope to be better than 12DP, and overly claim their dominance in the industry. 8) Always check their registrar whois. If it's a scam, 9 times out of 10, you will find flaws and discrepencies in the information. 9) This is more of a piece of advice than a sign: It is a bad idea to base a program's legitimacy on the fact that they pay AT FIRST. Of course a scam is going to pay for the first few weeks, maybe even months to get more people in. In fact, one of the first warning signs should be if they are paying rediculously when they start, as did amigosurf. Just a few clues folks. Be careful. You’ve been warned
Get Paid to Surf Red Flags
So you know how the get paid to surf industry works and you’re ready to get started. You want to make money online with these programs, but you also understand that there is risk involved. Quite simply, the risk involved is, “Will the company I invest in disappear?” The concept is similar to the stock market, but picking the right companies is somewhat easier in the get paid to surf industry. The following are some questions to ask yourself when choosing that perfect get paid to surf program. Has the autosurf program been around for a while? Look for companies that have been around for over a year. Avoid giving your money to brand new get paid to surf programs because 75% of them will fail in the first year. Has the autosurf program been paying its members? Visit make money online forums and do your research. Find out what other members are saying about the programs. Are people expressing frustrations? Are people posting screenshots of payments that they have received? Learn from the mistakes and accomplishments of others. Does the autosurf program appear to be growing? Remember, autosurf programs require constant growth in order to make their payouts. If they stop growing, they will not be able to pay their members. Look for signs of growth on the website. Look for new features being added, and servers being upgraded. Look to see if they are hiring new people to help manage all of their new growth. These are good symbols of a profitable get paid to surf program. Does the get paid to surf program promise too much? Remember, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Be wary of programs that promise to double your money in 30 days, pay you 5% daily, or any other seemingly perfect opportunity. Asking yourself these simple questions can help you avoid a lot of heartache. Remember, just like the stock market, you need to know when to get out of a get paid to surf program. Invest with your mind and not your emotions. If a company you are with is showing any signs of slowing down, consider cashing out your money. No autosurf program can last forever because eventually they will run out of new members to deposit money and fund the old members. The get paid to surf industry is a good way to make money online, but requires more research and patience than some of the others. excerpt from an article at NickelKnack.com
I guess if you test spend with money that was already a profit from somewhere else, the amount doesn't really matter, right? I mean if I made a thousand bucks from one program and lost 500 bucks to a scam site, I am technically still in the black. Or am I wrong to make a suggestion like this?
QUOTE(mlm_hotshot @ Dec 4 2005, 09:26 PM) I guess if you test spend with money that was already a profit from somewhere else, the amount doesn't really matter, right? I mean if I made a thousand bucks from one program and lost 500 bucks to a scam site, I am technically still in the black. Or am I wrong to make a suggestion like this? [right][snapback]636075[/snapback][/right] I think the answer to this question depends on if you are working a plan with a goal in mind to maximize your profits. I, for one, don't want to lose 50% of my profit on a scam, even if I am in the black. Others may feel like you do and can accept an overall profit. Thank you to everyone for posting this information here. Any other helpful tips would be greatly appreciated. I'm only in 12DailyPro right now (since AmigoSurf bailed) and am not overly anxious to invest in others considering how well this autosurf is doing. Although, I am listening - I promise - and plan to distribute my investment once the next payout comes from 12dp.
I got better advice: they are all scams, all of them.
QUOTE(mlm_hotshot @ Dec 4 2005, 08:26 PM) I guess if you test spend with money that was already a profit from somewhere else, the amount doesn't really matter, right? I mean if I made a thousand bucks from one program and lost 500 bucks to a scam site, I am technically still in the black. Or am I wrong to make a suggestion like this? [right][snapback]636075[/snapback][/right] No, but how many of us have 500 bucks to to burn?  QUOTE(davidscript @ Dec 4 2005, 10:47 AM) More updates... I’ve had people say that I accuse all GPT programs on here as being scams. Although this isn’t true, I am wary of most sites, especially the new ones probably because 90% of them sadly turn out to be scams. And now I’m starting to believe that when invex group claimed they owned dozens of the top sites, closing down some, while opening others, it is absolutely true. I believe sasho was part of this same group, and as I read these posts, it’s becoming more and more eerily clear to me that they are all mmg members and possibly running 2 out of 4 of these sites on here as we speak. Now, before I get flamed to death, invest wherever you see fit, just keep in mind certain, very subtle trends that I’ve noticed about them that you should be wary of. 1) The admin or supporter or consultant, or whatever they call themselves, who comes on here promoting the site always has very poor English, bad grammar, communication, and typing skills, not just in this forum, but on the site as well. Of course this isn't always the case with all programs, but seems to be very common. 2) He/she often works in groups in each thread, all posing as members. The head person/admin/consultant/spokesperson often comes across as very friendly, almost overly friendly, and a few others who's sole purpose is to keep the fervor going and flame anyone making inquires or critical comments about the site and its policies. A tag team that's almost comical to watch. Watch them carefully, you'll definitely see the pattern. 3) The other "fake" members will often imitate legimate members, "Looks good," "Smooth surf," etc., and go overboard about upgrading and being "paid". 4) He/she always urges people to promote the site, bring people to the thread, practically demands support, and emphasizes referrals. They strongly urge people to quickly upgrade while the momentum is building. 5) Often times the main person says that they aren’t necessarily the admin, that they communicate with another person/friend/partner/group, who takes care of admin tasks and finances. This might be a way to buy some time so they can come up with some excuse or answer to a question or problem that they don't readily have. Although, this becomes contradictory in time when it becomes apparent that they have the magic ability to fix and correct admin problems and finances themselves. 6) The site that they're promoting instantly changes upgrade and cashout policies, in most cases, within that day 7) They always compare themselves to 12DP, or that one day they hope to be better than 12DP, and overly claim their dominance in the industry. 8) Always check their registrar whois. If it's a scam, 9 times out of 10, you will find flaws and discrepencies in the information. 9) This is more of a piece of advice than a sign: It is a bad idea to base a program's legitimacy on the fact that they pay AT FIRST. Of course a scam is going to pay for the first few weeks, maybe even months to get more people in. In fact, one of the first warning signs should be if they are paying rediculously when they start, as did amigosurf. Just a few clues folks. Be careful. You’ve been warned [right][snapback]634533[/snapback][/right] these are good points, thanks, i could use all help i can get. maybe someone can list things on how to know a good site. i am in 3 today, and am looking for much more reliable site to invest in, but so many dishonest people to look out for  QUOTE(samtastic @ Dec 7 2005, 09:28 AM) these are good points, thanks, i could use all help i can get. maybe someone can list things on how to know a good site. i am in 3 today, and am looking for much more reliable site to invest in, but so many dishonest people to look out for [right][snapback]646631[/snapback][/right] The only thing I can really tell you sam, is do your own research, research, research. 80% is research and 20% is gut instinct, and of course even that isn't fullproof. You can get alot of valuable info on the net, including here. This place is rich with info, especially the scam threads. You can get to know how scams began and what signs were there that people shoulda looked for. But be extremely careful about who you listen to in here, because I've noticed a peculiar trend of "test spenders," experimentation, and referral hungry vets that goes on when a new program launches. 3 is good for now, and if they are working for you, I'd stick with those. Stay away from any new programs until next year when hopefully all this chaos will sort itself out and only the strong and reliable programs will remain... oh yea, did I mention research
Another typical issue: payprocessors.
If they start with lots and end with 1 or 2, hold your breath. If they change type of processor a lot, hold your breath... If they only use e-gold, hold your breath.... Especially moneybookers seems to be efficient in freezing scamaccounts. Actually they saved me from being scammed by Gci. And I've seen them freezing other PTS pretty soon, who turned out to be scams afterwards. Not that it is 100% sure, but definatly worth some extra eyes. QUOTE(Spiv @ Dec 7 2005, 08:37 PM) Another typical issue: payprocessors. If they start with lots and end with 1 or 2, hold your breath. If they change type of processor a lot, hold your breath... If they only use e-gold, hold your breath.... Especially moneybookers seems to be efficient in freezing scamaccounts. Actually they saved me from being scammed by Gci. And I've seen them freezing other PTS pretty soon, who turned out to be scams afterwards. Not that it is 100% sure, but definatly worth some extra eyes. [right][snapback]647019[/snapback][/right] Moneybookers isn't safe sign. HyipDaily Returns scammed and I tried to claim for a refund but never had my money back. Anything goes with these lowlifes 
QUOTE(nenumphar @ Dec 7 2005, 08:17 PM) Moneybookers isn't safe sign. HyipDaily Returns scammed and I tried to claim for a refund but never had my money back. Anything goes with these lowlifes [right][snapback]647108[/snapback][/right] Hmm...probably my experiences are coïncidence than. Never joined a HYIP, so I wouldn't know how they act in that field. Actually I though moneybookers was very very seldom in HYIPS And I wouldn't call moneybookers lowlifes. You made the mistake by joining the Hyip 1. They clearly state in their terms that they DO NOT offer chargebacks or refunds. 2. Never had any troubles with them and made over 50 transactions with them. Always smooth, hardly any fees and fast. I had once second thoughts about an item I bought online and the seller just sended me the money back through MB. I only lost about 1 dollar of the 200 I paid. Off Course, a HYIP will not send your money back
QUOTE(Spiv @ Dec 7 2005, 10:23 PM) Hmm...probably my experiences are coïncidence than. Never joined a HYIP, so I wouldn't know how they act in that field. Actually I though moneybookers was very very seldom in HYIPS And I wouldn't call moneybookers lowlifes. You made the mistake by joining the Hyip 1. They clearly state in their terms that they DO NOT offer chargebacks or refunds. 2. Never had any troubles with them and made over 50 transactions with them. Always smooth, hardly any fees and fast. I had once second thoughts about an item I bought online and the seller just sended me the money back through MB. I only lost about 1 dollar of the 200 I paid. Off Course, a HYIP will not send your money back [right][snapback]647295[/snapback][/right] Excuse my bad English, didn't mean Moneybookers was lowlife. I referred to the HYIPs with that. Have many other great exchanges with Moneybookers. They even had this nice feature to add gold straight from Moneybookers to egold. But that was just in the beginning.
Alright I have a few comments from what I have seen there has been a ton of good information that I have seen in here so far. Some things I wish I would have known before I started into some less then profitable.
I do not agree with the comment dont spend in programs that have not been around a year. WHATEVER. No investment = no capital for the company = no way to build a business = closed DUH. Dont be crazy ( like me ) in the last 2 months I have dumped $2500 into a few programs I have lost about $1000 of that to scammers. I have made a total of $300 ish even after I lost money from to scammers. I now Test spend and have rules about it that I follow. Take a program you can invest in with as little as $10. No big deal right. The rule I follow ( NOW ) is this. I would spend the $10 and then wait to get it all back before I spend any more. So if it will take 2 months for you to get your money back. After 2 months let it grow until you can invest with profits only. Yes this is slow but if you loose money its only interest and you are not out your capital. As far as payment goes I picked egold only why NO CHARGE BACKS. The biggest problem in autosurf right now after Scam programs are scam users. These are people that used fake/stolen cards to upgrade with. Payment processors punish the merchant. If the transactions get reversed for a credit card at storm pay then the merchant gets the money taken out of their account. This is really bad on a program where a cash out can happen faster than someone can find out the payment was a fake. The merchant suffers 2 fold. The processor takes the original money back and the merchant is out the payout.
Let me just take a moment and address this issue on this thread since alot of replies here were related to "test spends."
Here are my reasons why “test spending” is flawed... You’re assuming that the scammers will take the money, not pay anyone, and run, most likely within the same day that they launch, or at least before the first upgrades expire, which is a ridiculous concept, and from what we’ve seen from past scammers, just doesn’t happen. Lets say you “test” with $10. You’re obviously not the only one involved, so now lets say 500 more people “test” with $10. Now you have given the scammers $5000, and more ammo. Now they have a better incentive to stick around longer. They can elaborate their scam with better equipment e.g. rent a better dedicated server, buy cellphones and false documents so they can certify the scam, bribe (as invex group claimed) a few monitoring programs to get their program a good rating, and most importantly make more payouts which will ultimately bring more and more people in once they hear the fanatic shouts of “they’re paying!” Furthermore, the $10 that was wasted, could have been used to support, with purchase of an upgrade, a more reliable program that’s been around for awhile (not going to argue which is “reliable”... you know who they are ). So, what you are really saying is “I don’t don’t care about the dd flaws, or all the other red flags that people found about this program, let me throw in $10 quickly and see if I can break even, or better yet, get a little profit before they do run. That’s fine, just be honest about it.
QUOTE(davidscript @ Dec 8 2005, 09:44 PM) Let me just take a moment and address this issue on this thread since alot of replies here were related to "test spends." Here are my reasons why “test spending” is flawed... You’re assuming that the scammers will take the money, not pay anyone, and run, most likely within the same day that they launch, which is a ridiculous concept, and from what we’ve seen from past scammers, just doesn’t happen. Lets say you “test” with $10. You’re obviously not the only one involved, so now lets say 500 more people “test” with $10. Now you have given the scammers $5000, and more ammo. Now they have a better incentive to stick around longer. They can elaborate their scam with better equipment e.g. rent a better dedicated server, buy cellphones and false documents so they can certify the scam, bribe (as invex group claimed) a few monitoring programs to get their program a good rating, and most importantly make more payouts which will ultimately bring more and more people in once they hear the fanatic shouts of “they’re paying!” Furthermore, the $10 that was wasted, could have been used to support, with purchase of an upgrade, a more reliable program that’s been around for awhile (not going to argue which is “reliable”... you know who they are ). So, what you are really saying is “I don’t don’t care about the dd flaws, or all the other red flags that people found about this program, let me throw in $10 quickly and see if I can break even, or better yet, get a little profit before they do run. That’s fine, just be honest about it. [right][snapback]650600[/snapback][/right] I have to 100% accept what are you quoting here. I will try to change myself on test spending habits upto some extend. The best to you
I am not a believer in test spends, as such.
I prefer to hit and run in short term programs, perhaps not with a lot of money, but enough to make it worthwhile. Too much too early shortens the life of the program in my opinion, I prefer programs that grow slowly and steadily. Pete |
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