I hear a lot of talk about greedy people in this forum. Greedy this greedy that. So I ask: are most of these programs we have here greedy and therefore a sin to be in?

We estimate 95% of current PAYING programs on MMG are ponzis. This is including ST, PR, PE, etc.

So the question is: Is joining a ponzi like Studiotraffic a moraly right thing to do? Is it a sin to be a member of a ponzi?

The people I look up to (business wise) do business with real products and/or stocks etc. I am doing that right now, but devote most my time to this stuff. Frankly because this stuff produces a bigger income for me than selling construction lights. I try for years without success selling products on ebay. With these programs I try for one month - BAM - I'm in profit.

Its just cycling money - as far as I know thats not very honest business. Doesn't mean I'm not going to do it - just means I don't feel as good about it.

Maybe I'm wrong - maybe this stuff isn't going to send me to Hell. But I would have to lie if I said I didn't think about it many times.

Comment.

I see nothing wrong with taking advantage of an opportunity that presents itself. That does not make you a bad person. Most people are aware of the risks involved, and it's their choice if they'd like to participate. You arent directly responsible for anyone elses losses. Everyone is responsible for their own losses. That's unless they were intentionally scammed of course, then i'd lay some of the blame on the scammer too, but not all of it.

ASFx, I don't think you understood my point. I am asking if people considering this stuff to be greedy - to be sinful. This has nothing to do with losses.

sinful ? you see something in the bible about ponzis? No ponzis are the govt way of taking our money and they say its unlawful for us to run one or even participate in one unless its run by a government.... I say FU GOVT....

No I see something in the bible about greed. I am asking if you guys think ponzis are run on greed and all people that participate in them are greedy.

no i dont think so.... people understand the risk involved.... the problem is newbies who believe admin crap about "this is real, backed by real trading and investments".... its a game.... sure some admin maybe greedy some do it to help people....

Capitalism is run on greed. It's a rather nasty theory of human nature, but it suits the ruthless, and that's kind of how this whole sad story got started.

If you have enough money to live okay without ponzis, then don't play ponzis.

There will always be greedy and ruthless people in the world, and they will do well in the world, because they make all the rules. You can't change that. You can only control how you act.

I dont think it's greed. People need money to survive, and people see these programs as a way to make a living, or at least make a good suppliment to their income. I think it's only greed when people start doing things like trying to cheat the program, or they reinvest all their profits over and over again until the program dies without withdrawing anything.

There are greedy people here, just like everywhere, but if you really look at it, it's not that much worse than 'legitimate' business. At least you know you're gambling here.

What rules you'd go by as to whether it's a sin (there are a lot of words for that in Hebrew, so aside from 'a mistake or wrong thing' I don't know exactly what you mean), well, that's something that's between you your ethical system, and your G-d, if you believe in one. Nobody else can make those decisions for you.

In the bible it isn't a huge sin, if you're curious. The only prohibition on gamblers is that they couldn't serve as witnesses before a Beit Din (court of judgement), as they weren't considered reliable witnesses. Other than that, there were no punishments or anything for gambling, except, of course, sometimes you lose your money.

What he said...

Hmm I thought I would get more people to say it was greedy but they don't care.

Oh well

Any other comments?

Well, I think the question should not be if joining these programs is being greedy. The question should be if joining these programs is more greedy than other types of business. We are all here to make money ... maybe even easy money but what makes this worse than selling a product on e-bay for 10x the price its worth or a car salesmen selling a car or any other business for that matter. We all need money to live and to support our families and if you I personally wasn't "greedy" here and trying to make money than I would probably have been "greedy" in some other business and also trying to make money And if you are only reffering to ponzis as a sin because they are a gamble and someone has to lose at the end. Consider this : if you trade stocks on your own you can still lose. If you open up a business it can go wrong. If you work for someone else you can get layed off or get fired Everything you do in life is gamble and it depends on how much tolerance you have and how much risk you can take. So if you equate these programs with any other way of making money, you might not feel so bad becuase there are winners and losers in all aspect of any business.

I don't think joining these programs because of greed. People need money to survive and also know about the risk involved. If greed took part, people will only see how high and how fast the ROI is and forget about how high the risk was. And most of the time, those people get scammed by scammers because of greed took part when they are making their decision to join a program.

Yes that happened to me once. Will never happen again

Thank you guys for your answers, I feel much better now.

I agree with Asfx's comments, especially the part about reinvesting 100% over and over. THAT is greed. It is also very foolish as you wind up with nothing instead of some profit. ANd also Marlena's bit on how capitalism works.

Is it greedy to make more money playing these games than by other conventional forms of earning money? Nahhh, no more so than than making your career one that pays very highly(surgeon) over a career that doesn't(administrative assistant). They all have their own sacrifices/risks/effort/time involved.

NUK

everything that we do is ruled by either necessity or greed

necessity is limited to having 2 clothes to wear, a roof above our head, and 2 square meals a day

everything else that we, or for that matter i, do is governed by greed

I look for way's to make money, no sin in that, If I started a Doubler or hyip with the intent to steal from the people that joined that would be a sin. Yes there are lot of sinner's out there. Just be careful what you join as there are some legit. program's .

Cant agreed more with what you said

The world is not the same as stone age time ,where we hunt to feed . Now is more likely grab as many as you can . sigh

What's so sinful about trying to make money online?

Greed makes the world go 'round...

-there are other motives for many people
generosity
genuine concern and to develop more ability to help others..
out of love as demonstrated from above

of course, we have to really ask if what we are doing is intended for us from above

many of these programs have a negative effect on many peeps

I really truly am looking for the ones that help "enrich"

If Social Security is still around when you retire, will you not participate because it is a very large ponzi?

I would think not.

well, i do this so i can be able to stay home with my 2 yr old. and yes, so we can have extra things we might not be able to have without this money. i don't think it's greedy for anyone to try to improve their level of living if they can do it, same reason people look for higher paying jobs. gotta have cash no matter how you look at it. sin or not... sorry, but i much prefer this to waitressing.

Prefer this over waitressing? Got tired of the old men telling that you dropped something?

LOL

It's not that we don't care - we just don't agree.

Bottom line - If YOU think it's wrong to participate in any
of these programs, then by all means - don't do it.

hey, that was the part i liked.

i bet that was the part which even the old men liked cuz you had to bend over .......

ya....that was.....kinda the point....

Now we are off topic

what? this group off topic? never....

Greed and you ---> Greed is everywhere with you, even when you are eating a bite more than always of a food. So I don't think being here just makes you greedy. I follow the rules I have in my daily life for not being greedy here, like not telling lies for collecting refferal commissions or not putting more than I can afford in programs and also finding more legitimate programs.

Greed and others---> Moreover I believe We are only responsible for our actions. Our senses are not strong enough to find out about other people real intentions, so better not to easily judge them. Also, Most of businesses in world are like ponzie. You have to leave the life, if you want to live in a without ponzie world!

Just all my opinion.

Good Answer!

Could you name some things that you think are ponzis in today's world? Not that I don't agree with you, just that I haven't thought about it that much...

Hmm...don't wanna be a bumper, but I have something to add to this topic.

I noticed people call repeated compounding greedy.
Alright well lets take 12DP for example. Some say compounding over and over is greedy. Which I think has some truth to it. But is compounding your earnings starting with only 6 dollars and making your way up to 200 lets say. Is that as greedy as going in only 1 time in 12DP for 6k?

You tell me...

Why is putting 6,000 in greedy? It's called making the most of your money.

Someone who compounds over and over usually loses in the end. I know I used to do that but since last year I kind of stopped joining programs. I ignore 99% of them now

Greed or not, I enjoy living with my sins

Mobile's right ( for once ) ... compounding only increases the risk of losing. It's not greedy, it's damn right stupid in some cases (where people believe the program will be there forever), but some are willing to increase their risk for a higher return. Personally I take out my intial investment asap then compound a percentage of my profits, depending on the program.

Throwing $6k in and maxing an account, then having no room for re-investing only to withdraw... now is that greedy? No... if a program stays around long enough for them to get their money back and some profit they have done well, and they are the ones who have won on their investments this time round, but not all programs stay around long enough to allow them to regain their initial and profits.

Neither is greed, it's just risk and playing the game.

Greed is when people drag others into a program knowing the people they are refering will not see their money back, just so they can make profit from them. Saying a program is more than it is, no referring, etc... IMHO.

Greedy admins is a totally different story...

Oh, well some people on this forum sure believe its greedy...I wish they would come to this thread...

If someone thinks it's greedy then it may be because they aren't doing it. Some people like to take the risk and some don't. People have different lifestyles and you have to live for YOUR lifestyle not everyone elses. I don't have $6000 in any program but if I had $6000 burning a hole in my pocket and saw an opportunity then I'd do it.

Guess that makes me a sinner.

Well I guess I'am right there with you Mobile and so are most of the MMG member's.

I'm not saying its sinful, although I can just barely see someone's arguement that compounding over and over is greedy. I really just wanted to see what you guys had to say. I'm pretty much neutral on the subject .

Just like a good discussion I guess