I would like to introduce a fresh and unique wealth managment opportunity to everyone here at the MoneyMakerGroup.com

Our company is now offering our proprietary Individual Liquidity Provider program to the general public domain.

Whether you are just stepping into the "trenches" of the financial markets and investment world, or are a seasoned investor, we guarantee this really will be a recession-proof and stress-free addition to any portfolio.

I will try and be around on the forum as much as I can to answer any questions.
Alternately, please use the contact form on our site to get in touch.

Thanks, ccm

Good day all.

I have stepped in and relieved my colleague of his posting responsibilities here.

I am as of today the owner and primary partner of the newly formed liquidity provision arm of Contrarian.

I have made some changes to the site, so it may be worth another look in case you only had an initial view a few days ago.

Essentially the interest earned has remained the same. The program has just been altered to represent more of a notice / call account structure.

I have pasted an extract from the product page below for summary:
"
ILP-146
1.46% Monthly Interest Payment
Return on Investment for 1 year = ~18.01% [~15.39% EARNINGS + ~2.62% GROWTH]
Minimum Lump-Sum Investment: $5,000.00 USD (Or Currency Equivalent)
Notice / Call Period: 30-Days

ILP-236
2.36% Monthly Interest Payment
Return on Investment for 1 year = ~29.36% [~25.09% EARNINGS + ~4.28% GROWTH]
Minimum Lump-Sum Investment: $5,000.00 USD (Or Currency Equivalent)
Notice / Call Period: 60-Days

ILP-382
3.82% Monthly Interest Payment
Return on Investment for 1 year = ~48.18% [~41.16% EARNINGS + ~7.02% GROWTH]
Minimum Lump-Sum Investment: $5,000.00 USD (Or Currency Equivalent)
Notice / Call Period: 90-Days
"

Please don't hesitate to ask any questions or request additional information either here or via the contact form on our site.

Contrarian Capital Management

Thank you for the consideration of letting our firm represent your business.

Contrarian

Hi all.

Online now for any details or questions.

I'm quite fascinated that no-one has expressed any interest.

I mean, come on. Why is everyone on this forum?
It is not because you are looking for a risk-free, long-term investment. Your money would be in bonds, or the bank, if it was.

I think users are on this and other forums, because you are searching for an investment, yes, but one that will PAY you.

An investment for income.

This is all I'm offering. With a sustainable rate of return that can never be matched over the long term by any of the other so called "Non HYIP" programs I see on here.

Surely, there are some savvy investors among the masses here? That can see the benefit and value.

Get your wallets out. We'll pay you for your trouble.

This looks very strange !!!

I've heard it called many things.

Don't let the whole "property investment" angle throw you.

It was just an easily understandable analogy to use.

The basic premise is a capital lease agreement between us and the investor.
We "rent" an asset from you, for a specified period, at a specified rate. The asset just happens to be liquid.

It is not really an uncommon concept, if you ask around in the right circles.
What do you think the LIBOR and similar rates represents?

I have just added this to the site, in order to understand your returns better at a glance.
Thanks.

Please see Example payment table below:
Liquidity Return Monthly Annual Income
1.46% 2.36% 3.82% 1.46% 2.36% 3.82%
$5,000.00 $73.00 $118.00 $191.00 $876.00 $1,416.00 $2,292.00
$10,000.00 $146.00 $236.00 $382.00 $1,752.00 $2,832.00 $4,584.00
$15,000.00 $219.00 $354.00 $573.00 $2,628.00 $4,248.00 $6,876.00
$20,000.00 $292.00 $472.00 $764.00 $3,504.00 $5,664.00 $9,168.00
$25,000.00 $365.00 $590.00 $955.00 $4,380.00 $7,080.00 $11,460.00
$30,000.00 $438.00 $708.00 $1,146.00 $5,256.00 $8,496.00 $13,752.00
$35,000.00 $511.00 $826.00 $1,337.00 $6,132.00 $9,912.00 $16,044.00
$40,000.00 $584.00 $944.00 $1,528.00 $7,008.00 $11,328.00 $18,336.00
$45,000.00 $657.00 $1,062.00 $1,719.00 $7,884.00 $12,744.00 $20,628.00
$50,000.00 $730.00 $1,180.00 $1,910.00 $8,760.00 $14,160.00 $22,920.00
… … … … … … …
$100,000.00 $1,460.00 $2,360.00 $3,820.00 $17,520.00 $28,320.00 $45,840.00

Sorry about that.
The formatting seems to have got all messed up.

Please feel free to read our product page again, and post any questions or queries to us via e-mail or here.

Product Page

Thanks.

All accounts now have a 30-day notice period

ILP-146
* 1.46% Monthly Interest Payment
* Return on Investment for 1 year = ~18.01% [~15.39% EARNINGS + ~2.62% GROWTH]
* Minimum Lump-Sum Investment: $5,000.00 USD (Or Currency Equivalent)
* Notice Period: 30-Days

ILP-236
* 2.36% Monthly Interest Payment
* Return on Investment for 1 year = ~29.36% [~25.09% EARNINGS + ~4.28% GROWTH]
* Minimum Lump-Sum Investment: $5,000.00 USD (Or Currency Equivalent)
* Notice Period: 30-Days

ILP-382
* 3.82% Monthly Interest Payment
* Return on Investment for 1 year = ~48.18% [~41.16% EARNINGS + ~7.02% GROWTH]
* Minimum Lump-Sum Investment: $5,000.00 USD (Or Currency Equivalent)
* Notice Period: 30-Days

i would rather invest in my bank, lol.

these are the kind of rates i get on a monthly basis anyways.

thanks for sharing though.

Well, I have 2 responses to that.

Firstly, you are one lucky bank account holder. Care to share the institutions that pay these rates on a monthly basis... I would love to see some proof.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not dismissing your claim, but if you can show me a bank account that potentially produces 40%+ ROI every year.
Well, then I will be corrected I suppose. Also, just to throw in the last straw, can you make sure that they also charge no monthly or annual service fees for the "priviledge" of having those accounts.
Then, maybe, we'll be on par.

Secondly, this is after all, supposed to the the Non-HYIP section, isn't it?
Although, some of the crap I see posted in this particular section of the forum are a sick joke.

The purpose of our program, is a sustainable rate of return for clients as well as us.
A steady, ongoing, residual income stream for clients.
Equity appreciation and most importantly Capital Preservation
No losses suffered to client capital. Whether we perform or not.

You could always pump in income stream from our program into one of those accounts.

Due to the great success of our trader/fund incubation projects for the last 3 quarters, we are now sharing some of that good fortune with ILP account holders that have helped us with providing liquidity.

You will receive a quarterly profit share from our portion of net profit gained from the performing funds.

The way we've structured it for the time being, is that it will be up to 14% of your existing account balance. Paid quarterly into your ILP account as a bonus.

ILP-146
* 1.46% Monthly Interest Payment
* Return on Investment for 1 year = ~18.01% [~15.39% EARNINGS + ~2.62% GROWTH]
* Minimum Lump-Sum Investment: $5,000.00 USD (Or Currency Equivalent)
* Notice Period: 30-Days
* Up to 14% quarterly profit share from incubation fund(s)

ILP-236
* 2.36% Monthly Interest Payment
* Return on Investment for 1 year = ~29.36% [~25.09% EARNINGS + ~4.28% GROWTH]
* Minimum Lump-Sum Investment: $5,000.00 USD (Or Currency Equivalent)
* Notice Period: 30-Days
* Up to 14% quarterly profit share from incubation fund(s)

ILP-382
* 3.82% Monthly Interest Payment
* Return on Investment for 1 year = ~48.18% [~41.16% EARNINGS + ~7.02% GROWTH]
* Minimum Lump-Sum Investment: $5,000.00 USD (Or Currency Equivalent)
* Notice Period: 30-Days
* Up to 14% quarterly profit share from incubation fund(s)

Thanks for running this thread. Heres some feed back for you. The rate of return is to low for the risk. If you want more interest in you plan then decrease the risk.
A couple of ways to do that.
1. Post all the due dilligence that you can in this thread, with links or web adresses to gov agencies for verifaction of same.
2. Post a pro forma or something like it. The idea is to show how strong your biz is.
3. Get a reference from some trusted institution. Like the Better Business Bureau on-line reliability program, or pay-pal certified.

Good luck

Appreciate the feedback.
I have to disagree with the comment on the return being too low for the risk though.

The return is equal to the risk.
Which is at worst, a 1:1 Risk/Reward ratio.
Unless we are defining risk differently.

I don't know how much trading you or others reading this actually do, but risking any more of your equity than that, is asking for trouble and ruin. Also, we do not over-leverage our trading accounts like so many others do. That is why we require a larger initial principal to even establish positions based on the risk appetite. We make no excuses for that, nor will it change. (and if you didn't know, it is actually against regulation(s) to run a Reg-T margin trading account with less than $2500 in it, and to day-trade with less than a $25,000. Check NASD/FINRA in the us if you need to confirm this, or with the FSA in the UK)

Also, if clients feel they want to take a greater risk, in order to receive a greater reward, then all they have to do is tell us so. We probably won't like it, but have and will do it. We are pretty flexible. It is your nickel at the end of the day.

As for due-diligence, I am happy to submit it in private to anybody that asks, but will not post it on a public forum. I have my own, partners, CTA's and traders' identities and reputations to protect.

I don't see what a pro-forma would actually prove. (?)

As for BBB or Paypal certified. We don't use paypal, and I don't think the BBB give out reliability ratings for investment companies. Especially non-US based. Some of the other principals, as well as myself are based in Europe. So the BBB really have no merit. Sorry.

I know there must be some prudent investors out there amongst all the readers on this forum. Once you get past all the other BS, I'm sure they'll see the potential here.
Again, we are not trying to spin you some BS about unrealistic returns.
And if you think you can invest a couple of bucks, and get hundreds, or even thousands in return consistently and continuously, well you're mistaken, unless you're "betting the whole farm" every time, which in itself is a recipe for disaster.

Which of the other programs have actually been upfront about just how much of your money they're throwing into whatever revenue/profit generating vehicle they use? 1%? 10%? 100%?
Talk about bad risk:reward.
Do you even think about how much they have to risk, in order to make those returns?
How about how much it costs them to maintain those returns?
How long can they run at a profit, when they're paying you returns like that?
The math just doesn't quite add-up, now does it? (the word ponzi comes to mind...)

Granted, I know from first hand experience that in the forex for example, massive returns are easily made by those that know how, but I guarantee you, they are usually fairly short-lived.

Consistently extracting a sustainable rate out of the markets every day is the only way to profit from trading.
Keeping risk under control, and most importantly, as constant as possible will ensure your survivability for a very long time. Asset management, distribution and diversification concretes your wealth beyond that.

Lastly, remember, this program has been modeled on a property investment portfolio for more reasons than one.
Ask yourself this, how much would you be willing to dump into a buy-to-let property if you had the available capital?
Then, how much rent could you actually charge a tenant for that property?

Investors are on to a winner here. I have absolutely NO doubt about that.

good luck with your project contrarian

my friend has a planning to launch a project with similar intereset like yours.
Rates are very low for some people, but for real investor I'm sure its worthed to try

Thanks.

Many may disagree with the returns, but hey, you can't please all the people all of the time they say.

All I know is I've traded with the best and worst of 'em.
I've even been approached by certain HYIP *cough*(ponzi) programs in the past to trade their client funds for them, in an attempt to get them out of the s**t because the couldn't maintain client payments.

Admittedly, for some I have, where I felt they may still have stood a chance of survival, but then they inevitably crashed due to poor management, or the fact that as I said, even massive profits are short-lived if not handled carefully.

All the best to your friend too.

Good responses. Thanks.

You're welcome.
I try

Ok, seeing as "the customer is always right"...
I've bowed to the pressure of the multitude of requests I've had for something a little more appetising.

Here's where we currently stand.

Low Risk Range:

ILP-146
* 1.46% Monthly Interest Payment
* Return on Investment for 1 year = ~18.01% [~15.39% EARNINGS + ~2.62% GROWTH]
* Minimum Lump-Sum Investment: $5,000.00 USD (Or Currency Equivalent)
* Notice Period: 30-Days
* Up to 14% quarterly profit share from incubation fund(s)

ILP-236
* 2.36% Monthly Interest Payment
* Return on Investment for 1 year = ~29.36% [~25.09% EARNINGS + ~4.28% GROWTH]
* Minimum Lump-Sum Investment: $5,000.00 USD (Or Currency Equivalent)
* Notice Period: 30-Days
* Up to 14% quarterly profit share from incubation fund(s)

ILP-382
* 3.82% Monthly Interest Payment
* Return on Investment for 1 year = ~48.18% [~41.16% EARNINGS + ~7.02% GROWTH]
* Minimum Lump-Sum Investment: $5,000.00 USD (Or Currency Equivalent)
* Notice Period: 30-Days
* Up to 14% quarterly profit share from incubation fund(s)

High risk range:

ILP-500
* 5.00% Monthly Interest Payment
* Return on Investment for 1 year = ~63.72% [~54.44% EARNINGS + ~9.28% GROWTH]
* Minimum Lump-Sum Investment: $5,000.00 USD (Or Currency Equivalent)
* Notice Period: 60-Days

ILP-618
* 6.18% Monthly Interest Payment
* Return on Investment for 1 year = ~79.64% [~68.03% EARNINGS + ~11.60% GROWTH]
* Minimum Lump-Sum Investment: $5,000.00 USD (Or Currency Equivalent)
* Notice Period: 60-Days

ILP-764
* 7.64% Monthly Interest Payment
* Return on Investment for 1 year = ~99.73% [~85.20% EARNINGS + ~14.53% GROWTH]
* Minimum Lump-Sum Investment: $5,000.00 USD (Or Currency Equivalent)
* Notice Period: 60-Days

The "high risk" in the High Risk range only means we leverage a slightly larger percentage of your capital per position taken. NOT that the investments/trades we make are any more risky.
Funds from these accounts will not be used in our incubation programs, therefore no profit-share.

We still extend you the same protection from losses as with the Low Risk range.

I don't intend to debate anything you have posted. And I certainly don't wish to talk about things that I don't know about. The only reason that I post now is because I fear you have missed the message I was trying to communicate. I admit its my fault for not being clearer. So here goes again.

The paradigm of the person reading these threads is to find a way to make money. We all know the risks involved. But to most the rewards of high returns justifies the risk. Its a balancing act that has to weigh in heavier on the return verses the risk.
I believe that the reason that this thread has not been more active is the return side is just not heavy enough. We are talking about perceptions based on the past experiences with online investing.

My suggestions were just ideas about how to change the balance of risk verses reward to your favor. Yes your rates are far superior to that of a bank. No one was contradicting you.
But it still comes down to loaning money to a complete stranger we don't know who is basically saying "You can Trust Me". That would be easier swallowed if your operations were verified by someone or organization we did know and trust.


If you still don't understand then consider this. I'm willing to give the strangers at my bank a very large portion of my money because they have a couple of little stickers prominently displayed. 1. Federal Desposit Insurance Corp. FDIC. My goverment has verified this bank.
2. Better Business Buruea BBB certifies that their is no reported complaints against this business and that they have reviewed the business practice of same. Etc Etc.
WHAT HAVE YOU GOT. WHO IS VOUCHING FOR YOU. (capitals are for emphasis only - not shouting).

In my opinion (and it ain't worth much) you will get more people to trust you with there money given such low rates of return if you can build up your reputation. And a quick way to do that is to get some trusted organizations to vouch for you.

NUFF SAID.
AS always good luck to everyone.

^^

Noted and points taken aboard, thank you.

I am in the process of setting up a paypal business account as I'm thinking of starting up a pooled account with smaller entry limits and similar returns.

To start, if you're wondering whether I'm allowed to:
1. NFA Link
2. FTSE Fund Constituents Link (ps. this one doesn't always link directly, as it runs a script. just use the search field on the page with "contrarian" if you get stuck)
3. Hopefully, you'll get your "PayPal Verified" logo here soon too
Also, just Google the name for some SEC info and other links of our investments etc.

Now granted, this is an individual venture/fund so the company specific links above are not all down to my good work and may not carry as much merit , but I would hope that this will at least prove I've been operating within regulatory requirements for well over a decade, I'm educated and experienced enough in the financial market-place, and that I'm not (too much) of an idiot
I am fully educated, aware and able to manage the risk I expose anybody's funds to in the markets.
I trade live every day, and have done for the last 10 years.

On a personal level:
1. I am a licensed Floor Trader / Floor Broker
2. I am an Sii Level 3 Investment Management Certificate holder (Still tryin' to get that Diploma under my belt )
3. An Sii ASI
4. I am a regulated IFA
5. Operating this fund as an individual fund manager, as opposed to via a separate legal entity, I could not get FDIC insurance, but I do have Public Liability AND Professional Indemnity insurance from one of the UK's largest underwriters, initially to the tune of 5Mil Sterling concurrently (up to 1Mil per case x 5 cases consecutively). So my ass is covered. And so are your investments. And this limit will hopefully increase annually, as the fund grows.

Once I get the pool setup, it will pretty much operate as a "Commodity Pool Account", which I'm allowed to operate even though I'm not licensed by the NFA/CFTC/FINRA/FSA specifically for this purpose, I am exempt due to other certifications held.

Thanks.

WOW
I thinks that is the most professional post that I have ever seen from an admin.
KUDOS KUDOS KUDOS.

Do I hear distant applause.

Thanks.
No applause required.
Just doing what's required.

Hi all.

Quick update.

We've just made a very interesting acquisition recently... Well, more like a "hostile takeover" of sorts

I've acquired FreeSpirit Investments LTD, which I noticed afterward, had actually in the past posted on this board before, but understandably is now in the closed threads section. Which is another reason for mentioning it.

There were many reasons for the acquisition, and even though it cost me quite a nickel, generally I believe this was a good move.

We have pretty much disbanded everyone except the owner and chief trader, as we believe he is an invaluable resource to have kept.
They are a registered legal entity and the owner is also licensed and regulated to do his "job", which is essentially trading the financial markets. Another bonus for us, as we are quite specific in that respect. We require licensing/certification, even for the potential fund-managers and traders we incubate.
All their old offerings have been taken off the table, but I have taken over some of their larger accounts, share-holdings, trading accounts and off-line business investments. They are quite a profitable little addition to our portfolio.
(Hey, I'm in this for the money too you know )

I know they kind of went "underground" for whatever reasons, but this will hopefully be a fresh start for all of us.

I'll hopefully get him back on the boards here to post a bit of an intro and bio for those interested.

Why I brought this up is three-fold.
Firstly, as mentioned, the acquisition was a profitable addition to our portfolio.
Secondly, they are pretty well established in certain areas that I am still fairly new in. The likes of PayPal come to mind, for those of you that have expressed an interest in using that service to invest and receive payments. So we'll definitely be looking into some sort of combined effort on that.
Thirdly, lastly, but not in the least. The trader/manager/owner himself is an incredibly talented individual and will surely be raking in the profits for us, and our investors.

So, I'll leave you with that bit of info for now and keep the updates coming as they develop.

Just a quick note to dispel some concerns that have been brought up via e-mail etc.

The Capital Lease agreement/contract between us and the investor includes a Limited Power of Attorney agreement.

Therefore you can rest assured:

1. We can not abuse your funds. We only have LPoA over the agreed risk profile you sign-up for. Whether it be 1.46% or 7.64%. That is all we have access to. The rest of your capital is not "touched" or exposed to risk.

2. The reason we can operate in this way, is quite simply because we obtain a certain amount of leverage from our brokers on whatever percentage of capital you allow us access to. The percentage you agree to have exposed is also added to a much larger margin account that we operate to actually establish the position. That in turn is leveraged again.

Therefore your 1.46% is actually much larger "logically" than what it "physically" is.
This is of course also not an "alien" or foreign concept in the financial markets.

I must just stress however, leverage is a double-edged sword which can exaggerate losses, as well as gains.

Thankfully, we are fully aware of this and will never abuse it.

Lastly, investors that capitalise us with a currency other that USD, are actually in a better position than most. Why? Well, if you take the GBP (British Pound) as an example. At the current exchange rate, you are actually immediately doubling your holdings in $ terms, and are already "leveraged" 2:1.

Please, continue to ask, and I'll continue to try and clear up any queries.

Acquisitions coming in thick and fast!
Good thing I don't need much sleep!

I've just had confirmation of the finalisation of another MA deal.
(damn... I'm spending all my retirement funds! )

We now fully own and operate Test Tube Traders. This is another remote/prop trader company that funds aspiring securities traders and startup hedge funds. Along with it came a full blown account management and legal team/department.

All their existing funds and managed trader accounts are now under my ownership and control.

Another fantastic addition to the portfolio.

Although they are fairly new and not a lot of awareness has been generated around them, I'm sure that will all change very soon with the liquidity I'm planning on pumping into them. Not to mention subsidising certification training for the traders and fund managers involved.

Hold on investors. The ride has only just begun. And we're still in the 1st quarter of 2008!

Hopefully this will bear testimony to the commitment I've made to this venture.

At the risk of sounding too cheesy, all I can say is, seize your chance to get on board with this project now! I'm pretty sure I can make it well worth your while.

Evening/Afternoon/Morning all (wherever you're located, I didn't just want to assume we're in the same timezone )

Just a quick one today.

I have for various reasons decide to hold off on the "pooled" account option for now.

Strange as it may seem, it's actually for the benefit and protection of anyone involved as there are a couple of gray areas in operating it as a commodity pool type of investment scheme.

This is because of the way I've decided to structure this from the word go. As you can imagine, having a "pooled" lease agreement is a bit of an impossibility.

Until I can wrap my head around how to do this. It is still only available to individuals, and at the most, joint account holders or partnerships.

The only legal way around it so far, is if you, create a "pool" of potential investors yourself, and our agreement is with the pool operator, or the "pool as an entity", kind of like our institutional or corporate agreements,(as long as you are allowed to operate a pool of course)

Well, it was worth a try, but legal almost had a hernia when I suggested it .
Sorry for starting up interest and then not following through, but there are rules we have to adhere to.

Finally I am starting to attract the right kind of attention .

We have had a recent "tap-up" by the Rumson Consulting Group expressing interest.
(You can check them out for yourself if you are not familiar with them)

So, why tell you this?
Well, to hopefully make you aware again that this is not like the other "investment programs" you'll find on this section of the board. (which still confuses me, but anyway... )
That we legitimately and lawfully operate in this industry.
That our due-diligence is good enough for the likes of other professional institutional investors, fund-of-funds and qualified high net-worth individuals.

That we don't really need your money, but we do want it
We're just trying to work together with the nano-nano-(nano)-cap investors that often get forgotten, trodden on, "eaten alive" and generally get a raw-deal by various institutions.
And yes, make a buck or two in the process, I'm not going to sugar coat that. I've said it in another post also. This is after all also a business, and I am trying to ensure it is a profitable one. Otherwise, what would be the point?

I'm not just "cheer leading" or whatever it's called here, but merely trying to re-establish some focus amongst potential investors. I can see how it can be easy to lose sight on this forum ( Sorry mods/admins, but you have to admit, this particular section doesn't exactly live up to it's name)

Maybe I'm in the wrong place for that, who knows? Time will tell I suppose.

This place certainly has its own rules, terms and communications styles. Thats why alot of people call it the HYIP world. One way get yourself noticed is purchase a "sticky". It keeps the thread always at the top of the page. It will get alot of attention up there.

Well, to be fair, HYIP today is a gross abuse of what it used to be when I first got into the markets 15+ years or so ago.

And as others in other posts have recently mentioned, why is this section here anyway?
Plus, I cannot bring myself to spend good money on a sticky ad here.
Again, no offense meant to the "management" of this forum, but if it were mine, I would certainly try to exercise some measure of better control over the particular sections/boards better!

While I appreciate the suggestion, respectfully, I'm quite happy with just giving it a bump every now and then with updates and what I hope is useful information regarding the project.

Maybe even some more stimulating conversation with level-headed individuals like yourself

It will take the course it is meant to, and reach those that it is meant to, I believe that much.

Hello again all.
Sorry it's been so quiet in here, but the markets have been a dangerous beast to tame the last week or so. Equities especially

I may have managed to come up with a plan to allow some of you out there to "test the waters" so to speak.

If you remember, I part-own FreeSpirit Investments now, and have had a good old sit down and chat (round the pub ) with the primary partner and have managed to talk him into trading a little fund for me that I would like to open to any one interested here.

He already manages a fair portion of my other trading activities for me now, as was part of our agreement in my acquisition of FreeSpirit, 'cause I require a lot of time out of the market to get the incubation business up and flying.

But this one was dual-purposed in a way.
Firstly, as with any business/investor, I need all the money I can get too!
Secondly, I thought it may be a way to allow members here to get on-board with a much smaller initial capital requirement. Still provide me with liquidity in an indirect, roundabout kind of way, and make some nice returns in the process.
(They don't call me Contrarian for nothing you know )

I could only manged to squeeze him to commit to 8% per month as a low water mark, but I know the man's got some skills, so there is no upper cap set. It will just be variable from 8% up.

What's also nice (I think), is that for all intensive purposes, I'm going to be just another investor, much like any one of you here.
So I'll be on the "receiving end" for a change too
Now, granted I did seed the fund, and am collateralising it should it suffer any adverse effects or big drawdowns, but hey, put all that aside and just treat me as an equal on this one

So, here's what we've got for ya, in a nutshell:

1. Minimum Entry Amount: $250
2. Maximum Entry Amount: $5000
3. Return on Deposit: 8% per month
4. Time on Deposit: None
5. Processor: PayPal

Ok, now to elaborate a bit on the above points:

1. The Entry amounts are US Dollar(USD) amounts, (yep, I still accept them regardless of the current state of the Dollar ), or it's currency equivalent in Euro (EUR), Swiss Frank (CHF) or British Pound/Sterling (GBP)
2. The 8% is a minimum return. It could be higher. (well I for one am certainly hoping... )
3. Time on deposit just means there is no "locked" period and your funds can be returned 100% by informing us in writing. (yes, you will get address details once you join ). I will even go so far as to say I will accept a post here, as a notification in writing of intent to recoup invested principal.
   (Ballsy I know, but hey, I'm confident enough, and "fortune favours the brave" I think is the expression, isn't it?)
4. We'll be using FreeSpirit's existing Verified PayPal Business account to facilitate deposits and withdrawls. Why this way? Well, for one, you'll have your due-diligence already part taken care of for you by PayPal's verification process. You'll have a verified UK address on your payment receipts by using PayPal as the processor (I think. I'll have to try it and see what it shows). Some comfort (I hope) in the fact that PayPal have verified FreeSpirit's business practices, KYC process, risk aversion and management processes etc. etc. and found it sufficient. (And they don't treat businesses offering a financial services type product via their platform lightly from what I hear)

Anything beyond that, I can probably furnish you with privately, off-board.

Now from all the regulation/legality/licensing etc. posts I've been reading in certain other posts, let me just say this. This will be treated as a Commodity Pooled Investment Account. We do not have to register it with the SEC, or FSA, as I am going to be keeping it under $25-Million US and the UK limitations. My companies are exempt from having to register Commodity Pooled accounts or operations. I could go on sighting the law to you, but I think you could probably find it out for yourself. However, what I will stress is this, the advisor trading this fund is licensed and regulated to do so. As I said, I can furnish such information off-board if you still have any doubts.

I'll try and get around to updating our site with this info also, in the mean time, if you are interested, you can e-mail me at mmg@contrariancapitalmanagement and we can get you started.

K, lets get going. Looking forward to keeping the discussion going here with any other future investors.
I have to go and read the PayPal FAQ now!

I meant to add a PS to the above post..

Just to lighten things up a bit more...

Isn't it good to know that it's not just HYIP programs that "fold"...

Is this the world's biggest ponzi? LOL!

K, I've added a button/link to my sig for now (hope the mods don't slap my wrist, I read the rules, think it's ok)

I've christened it the FreeSpirit Fund, as you can see

If you want to invest in a currency other than USD, like the alternatives mentioned (EUR; GBP; CHF), please contact me via e-mail first, I will get a Payment Request e-mailed to you, which will be denominated in the currency of your choice and should contain all the contact details required.
Or if you just prefer to do it that way, even if it is in USD, by all means drop me an e-mail at

mmg@contrariancapitalmanagement.com

Let see how this goes.
I'm in for 25K....

............


Just kidding! I seeded the fund with that, but I'm in for $2500.

your going thru so much effort here and have been extrodinarily transparent. Thank You. Don't be put offended but it would behoove me to verify some of the info you have given.
Of course the paypal thing is pretty good all by itself because they are pretty aggressive about exclusion of shady businesses.

If you would be so kind. Could you educate me on the public Liabilty and Professional Indemnity issurance.
What is it? How does that effect investors who give you money. How can we verify the policy that you hold.
The concept interests me and could be a very useful tool to my future business plan.

As always good luck to everyone

Educate you... Damn! now you're talking effort! .
Just kidding, but on a serious note though. It is pretty much the same as any other insurance of the same kind.

An easier example may be to use lets say an engineer, that also runs his own engineering company.

The Public Liability (PL), is pretty standard stuff. If that engineer drops a brick or something on someone's foot, he can be sued for causing damage or harm to a person or property. The policy (hopefully, you know how insurance companies are ) covers the settlement required to pay for ..err... a new foot for that member or the public. If he's well enough covered, it can cover all costs and legal costs associated with that claim made against him. Even multiple, concurrent claims.

The Professional Indemnity (PI), is to cover any engineering slip-ups that he may make on a professional skills-based level. Lets say he makes a miscalculation of some kind which causes a machine to stop running. This machine happens to be, I don't know, let's say, digging iron-ore out of the ground. Production stops. Mine looses millions by the hour. Sues him for "loss of production" not really damage. Again, if he's well enough covered, the claim will be settled by his underwriter/insurer. As he is a professional after all, and shouldn't do this kind of thing on a regular basis.

Mines a bit of a PL/PI mixed policy.
How it applies to me, in a nutshell, is quite bespoke also. I was able to obtain it in the first place, because I am (supposed to be ) a professional in my field. I have stipulated risk management, and control processes and procedures. Which were accepted. If I have losses of more than what I have agreed to, my clients can potentially sue me for "damages" to their equity, and even overall net-worth.

Also, it covers me in the event of loss or damage to those funds, that are outside of my control, let's say, my broker going out of business and taking my capital with them or an employee of that brokerage "stealing" it or something. I can't cover all invested funds out of my own pocket, hence the insurance.

It was NOT easy to get, and it costs me an arm and a leg. But I did it because I have chosen to manage this project more as a person, than another, separate legal entity, like an LLC/LTD/INC whatever.
I've seen too many fund-managers, asset-managers and the like pretty much get away with murder because "they" couldn't be touched when the proverbial **** hit the fan. It was a myriad of companies managing companies managing companies and the investor just got shafted at the end of the day.

Well, as my site says, and I'll say again, I'm pretty sick of how the industry, especially the "hedge fund" industry operates. Look at the Carlyle Group just yesterday. I'll post a link to another article below, of a fund "manager" that had 4 failed billion dollar funds in 2 years. Yet no-one really knew, cause he was essentially "hiding" behind legal entities. Then someone still went and gave him over a billion to start a new fund, which he also screwed up! They were/are almost at a point where they are able to reclaim a couple million, and are trying to press to have ALL hedge funds mangers and funds records made public. Now then I believe the public will be shocked. Most of them are not even licensed/registered/regulated by the likes of the SEC/NFA/CFTC etc.
It's shocking and disgusting. Here's that link

Another reason why the funds, managers and traders I incubate, are operating as individuals too. I won't deal with them if they come to me with "shady" incorporations owned and manged by other incorporations, and all they want to do is rack up a quick 1-year nice enough track record using my money and my auditors, and then go out into the world to rip-off the wealthy and even not so wealthy. Make a nice fat "fee" paycheck and not give a hoot about anything or anyone else.

I had someone arguing with me the other day, saying how hedge-fund managers are better than mutual-fund managers, because their interests are totally aligned with their investors. Cause they don't get paid if the funds don't perform, whereas mutual-fund managers get paid either way. Well that's crap. Their interests are aligned with their pockets. Period. That's whey they take their first management fee out right at day-1. Then first thing every month/quarter/year whatever, before investors get paid. Then they take a slice of gross profit. Now note, I said gross profit, not NET profit. Why, well, they get a slice before any costs, broker commissions etc. etc. have even been paid. And who does that cost get passed off to...well the client of course. So if you're in a 20/80 split fund. The manager gets his 20% out of gross. You get your 80% out of net.

Anyway, I ramble... what is it you wanted again?

Apologies for the rant, and for the sake of getting this "back on track"...

I appreciate your skepticism, it is a very healthy attitutde to have when it comes to placing your money with anyone.

As for verifying the policy, well the best I can do is scan and submit a copy to interested parties, I think. There's no way of verifying it "online" so to speak.

At the risk of sounding like an arrogant b*$tard though, let me just say one thing. I've not to date been asked to verify it, or had to ever use it. And, for the sake of what I'm proposing with the FreeSpirit Fund, I doubt that I will.
No offence, but for $250 starting, to me, it hardly seems worth the effort.

Now as for larger investors and institutions that hand over 100's of 1000's to our management, with a long-term view, this is a different story all together obviously. It is included as part of our due-diligence pack/process.

I know I propably sound just like one of those managers I love to hate!

That's why I've always maintained that if you are invested, I will supply any DD info you require, off-board. And yes, it will come with an NDA attached.

Hope that helps (at least somewhat ).

What other questions or info are there that I can help verify or clarify for anyone?

I heard some more distant applause. Even a few "Horays" thrown in.

You can stop saying that really!
Folks are going to start accusing you of being a



You can applaud and hooray me when I manage to squeeze a consistant return out of the current psycho markets with your money... without losing too much of it in the process!

Hey cool!
Seems I can PM now cause of the post quota being met, so,

If anybody wants to chat "semi-offline" via PM instead of e-mail or on the open-board, go for it.
I can actually respond now

Wow your even humble.
As far as being a cheerleader. Thats not likey to happen.
I've tried to build up a reputation here. Never asked for referral bonus, even turned them down on occasion. purposely changed posts so people could not use links to sites. And I ask some hard questions to. People can check out my post to confirm for themselves. just search the members button and go to the pull down menu. then look at my posts.

Its a good way for you to check someone out, too see what there like.

Hey there eager to learn.

I hope you did not misread my "tone" with that last post. The cheerleader thing was just bit of wit

As for asking some hard questions, I welcome them from posters such as yourself.

I'm here to be grilled. Any time.

Sorry this is probably a bit unrelated, but my quote of the day after the emergency discount rate-cut by the FED on Sunday night has to be by Bloomberg.

"Bernanke plays 'Whack-a-Mole' with turmoil in markets"

What a fantastic time in history we are currently in!
And what a fantastic time to be an individual investor!

Can you imagine what you would feel like to find out that your $15Million worth of stock in Bear Sterns is now worth $500K .
Personally, I think I would throw up
(Anybody else having Enron flashbacks...)

Ride the markets with us.
Both UP and DOWN.

Any body care to wager on the upcoming FED rate decision later?
What about the value of the Dollar 3months from now?
Or the Pound for that matter?
What about Lehman? How will you play it?

Why not use us to remove the confusion and stress. We'll make the hard and fast decisions, and profit in any event.
(It's my job, and I'm pretty good at it I've been told)

If I may be so bold as to weigh in with my opinion, you are in the wrong place. Please don't take offense but you are on MMG, this is NOT a board for serious and legit investors and investments. I have met less than a handful of people on this board that are serious and are looking for real investments. The vast majority might say they are but in fact they are looking for the quick hit and run profits they can make before a Ponzi scheme folds up and dies.

When you add that mentality to the fact that you are using terms and ideas that 95% of this board have no clue of their meaning you are simply talking too far above your public. This is simply not the place you are going to gather up much interest.

This is a sad comment on the state of society. I also am involved with private investment groups, both on the investing and on the managing side of things and any trading fund, pool whatever you want to call it that will return you 8%ish per month is worth gold.. but you see the people that frequent this board honestly believe there is a whole class of super rich people that make 100% or more each month on their money and they are keeping it from the rest of us to keep the little guy down... as long as you are battling against that mistaken belief you will NEVER win them over with your "LOW" returns.. which in fact as you well know are outstandingly good and add to that your obvious knowledge and transparency, well they simply won't know what to make of you...

I would for one like to speak to you off this board and as such I've PM'd you a direct contact email address, I have a number of very high net worth investors and direct access to managed funds that would fit right into your portfolio's target market...

Thanks for all the effort, but you are paddling up stream here...

Hey there!
Wow, thanks for that... it seems I have been misled by the title of this forum then and this particular section...
Hhhmm, let me see MoneyMaker Group..."Investment Programs (Non HYIP)"... Yes, I can see where I made my mistake
How the hell did I ever get that wrong!

Thanks cvkint, I do appreciate sound feeback
And by all means, weigh in anytime!

That is just my point. I know their out there in the masses somewhere. They'll find me eventually I'm sure. I ain't goin' anywhere.

As for the rest, I know perceptions get tainted by the "get rich quick" programs on this board and others. But they're not all bad. This much I do believe. The hard reality check just has to kick them in the @$$ sometimes.

I also agree with the "state of society" comment you made, which is kind of what I'm trying to change, even if it is one person at a time ;-)

lmao, "burn the witch!!" comes to mind.

Oh dear, I could go on, but I'll refrain for the time being.
Thanks again though.
Hope you guys made out like bandits too with the FOMC today. I've been all over Cable like a rash, all the way up and all the way back down, with shorts still on now!
Whoo hoo, thanks Ben!!

Alright, I'll stop scaring the general public now.
I might just hit you up on that e-mail address thanks. You may end up sharing company with Citation Capital and the Rumson Consulting boys, just to mention a few new potentials.

Maybe I should buy Bear Stearns... it was goin cheap this morning

Yes sadly this is the wrong section, I believe that this section was created to counter all the over the top HYIPs so people then posted stuff in here that was offering lower returns but still way out of the realm of what can be done, I don't need to post you any examples you are well aware of the type of programs I'm referring to.

The fact is you likely would have gotten better response had you posted in the Stocks, Futures, etc.. section of the board as there are at the very least MORE serious minded people there... having said there you'll run into your share of yahoo's there as well but obviously not as many.



As for finding you, I can assure you very few of the ones that regularly post in the NON HYIP thread are really looking for that.. read some of the stuff in here haha...



The sad truth is what happens more often than not is that somebody will get into one of these games, not fully understanding it's a game and when it fails and takes their money with them they end up deciding instead of staying away from such nonsense they will in fact get "better" at the game and learn how to play more like pro and learn to hit and run etc..etc... so often that reality check kicks them in the wrong "A$$" haha...



Yup made out just fine thanks.. the ES market was up 54 points on the day I bailed with 5 points in hand shortly after the open.. I'm not greedy and learned long ago to take my little bite each day and move on...

I haven't check this morning but by your comments I am assuming you prefer trading the GBP vs. USD over the EUR or JPY? I don't get involve much in FX but most do say the cable is the best overall pair to trade...



It's in your PM would love to talk off board with you, sounds like we could do some business together.. I have some new capital coming in shortly that still needs a home...



What was it five or six bucks a pop on Tuesday? Good lord.... anyone wanna buy some mortgage backed securities?

Hello again cvkint.

Possibly, but I'm really not into the "go long, no go short, no go long" shout-outs in sections like that. Plus, I keep most of my methodologies pretty close to my chest... Edge and all that, you know

Now, on this I hear ya! Spoken like a true pro!
Especially true for the equities markets, although with the crazy up/down 100-200 point rides seen on the indices lately, it's becoming a bit like the currency markets
I traded a 1000 point drop in the HangSeng (HSI:IND) last week, and that was only part of the move!

I wouldn't necessarily say "the best". I think it depends on your appetite for risk. I trade GBP/USD, EUR/USD, GBP/JPY and EUR/JPY personally. With some other pairs in the basket for the purpose of providing a "hedge", as much as that statement is a bit of a fallacy in FX, I'd rather "truly hedge" with currency options collars, or futures contracts.
I watch quite a few pairs though, as they often reveal the little secrets of the ones I specialise in, or are in fact a synthetic make-up of my pairs.

Yeah, it hit some crazy low levels! I mean JPM offered them 2 bucks! What the hell was that all about?

I have to dash. Thanks for the chat again though!

Wow what a good education.
I'm just a small fry financially. But I want to jump in. Will be contacting you soon

[quote name='cvkint' date='Mar 18 2008, 09:17 AM' post='4759154']
If I may be so bold as to weigh in with my opinion, you are in the wrong place. Please don't take offense but you are on MMG, this is NOT a board for serious and legit investors and investments. I have met less than a handful of people on this board that are serious and are looking for real investments. The vast majority might say they are but in fact they are looking for the quick hit and run profits they can make before a Ponzi scheme folds up and dies.

Hey cnkint
Ouch. thats pretty harsh man
Not all of us are mindless greed investors that have drool running down our slack zombie like faces . I have noticed quite a few of your investors got there start here or have been active at MMG in the past . PM other places to go and I be there . For alot of people this is the only thing they have access too. For good or bad.

Unfortunately you are spot on with your description of many of the people here. But you left out the trolls and vigilantes and hackers who are only here for the demolition and destruction.

I knew I was right!

Hey there eager to learn, cheers for stopping by again.

And, "small-fry" "big-fry", I don't discriminate .
We were all "small-fry" initially after all.

Can I get some opinions going in here?
Seeing as the market's pretty quiet and the easter break is fast approaching.

Why do you think 2% per week is better than 8% per month?
And why, if you don't mind.

Is it that with many programs on this board and others, you really actually don't trust the company/individual representing your business, or managing your money, rather.
And all you want to do is collect as much of your risk capital and, hopefully some profit, back as quickly as possible?

Share your thoughts with me. I'd really love to know.
The "education" may just help me enhance the service I can potentially provide you.

I'm from an industry where quarterly, is a short-term outlook remember

Thanks in advance.

You explained it quite eloquently. The simplified version is " a bird in hand is worth more than 2 in the bush "

I guess the majority of "the types" here are simply wondering what on earth is a serious trader/high roller like you fishing in a pond( some liken it to a swamp. LOL! Private joke! ) like this. Aren't you suppose to be out there based in a nice office in some financial district or Caribbean money haven waiting for/upon the deep-pocketed individuals who have responded to an advertisement placed in an exclusive financial magazine?

As for enhancement, how much more can you add to your realistic offers before you create a fantasy? Having said that, speaking as an airhead, I would like structured products:

- bundled into simple packages for eg, Asian equity based, BRIC based, commodities( name them ) based, gaming based, forex based....etc
- that offer a capital guarantee if held to maturity,
- a minimum guaranteed return of 5-8% per month depending upon redemption be it monthly, quarterly, half-yearly or yearly,
- fixed tenures from 1 to 3 years( not really an advantage to me but it's comforting to know that the money is getting a realistic timeframe to work ).

Needless to say you'll provide the necessary and convincing paperwork, certificates...etc. And after all this, I might only plonk in $10K or whatever I dare risk( in a few months time! ). Would that be worth your time? If not, you simply need to fish elsewhere.

However, if you simply promise, say, 35% a month and provide only your contact details, ironically, you'll get some big fish throwing wads of cash at you. C'est la vie en HYIP!