I just joined an unbelievable investment program which offers risk free returns!
The program is called Sierra Investment Club and it makes it profits from arbtrage trading (also called surebetting).
And what exactly is arbitrage trading you might ask:
Arbitrage trading involves wagering on sports events but should NOT be confussed with gambling. Why?
There are currently thousands of online wagering sites. There are also an estimated 500,000,000 sports wagers made with these sites ever single day! This high volume creates competition among these sites.
Because of this competition different sites sometimes offer slightly different odds on the same sporting event. In some cases they actually offer substantially different odds. The difference in the odds determines the amount of risk free profit to be made by the Sports Arbitrage Trader.
Example: Below are bookmakers odds for an NBA game between Miami and Phoenix Sierra wages $500 on Miami with betting site A at odds of 1/1. Sierra wages $400 on Phoenix with betting site B at odds of 6/4. The total amount traded is $500 + $400 or $900 total. If Miami wins Sierra receives $1,000 from bookmaker A (our $500 wager plus a profit of $500). If Phoenix wins Sierra receives $1,000 from bookmaker B (the $400 wager plus a profit of $600). So the profit, no matter who wins, is $100 ($1000 - $900).
Sierra makes hundreds of trades like this each month that all yield between 1.5% and 10% profit.
Because neither gambling, competition or the internet is going to go away for a while the profits are virtually RISK FREE!!
Sierra pays out 2% weekly on any active deposits (minimum deposit of 50$)
You need an invitation code to join this program. The code is:
Why not learn how to trade yourself and you will be earning 20% on average monthly?
Guybrush83
Aug 9 2005, 02:14 AM
I tried this but found it to be rather troublesome. You have to subscribe and pay a monthly to use the right software. Then you have to add yourself as a member of over 50 bookies. (That was the case when I tried anyway).
With Sierra it is all done for you. You just deposit an amount and watch it grow. When you get tired of that you can just withdraw it all again. Easy...
Devilboy
Aug 11 2005, 03:39 AM
Um that's all good in theory but I'm going to need PROOF that Sierra has those bookie accounts and that they trade for real. My problem is that they use a generic crappy script. No real effort went into their site. They just installed the script and changed some details and the main image.
So far NOT A SINGLE site using that script turned out to be legit. All ponzis. Every last one of them. And there are many.
So someone needs to do an audit on them. As far as I'm concerned they are almost certainly just a ponzi.
medexter
Aug 17 2005, 09:39 PM
and always the arbitrage returns are around 1%, not 10% as you suggested, guybrush...
so unless I see solid evidence of their accounts and returns and statements, i just see this as just another SCAM
Guybrush83
Aug 17 2005, 10:55 PM
No the returns are of about 2% weekly. That's what they say on their webpage and that's what what I've been paid.
Devilboy
Aug 18 2005, 12:17 AM
Just because they paid you does not make them legit. They're probably just a ponzi.
Guybrush83
Aug 24 2005, 10:46 PM
QUOTE(Devilboy @ Aug 18 2005, 10:17 AM)
Just because they paid you does not make them legit. They're probably just a ponzi. [right][snapback]384162[/snapback][/right]
Try to keep an open mind. It's ok that you are not convinced yet but you have no evidence that it is a scam. So please stop calling it one.
DotComMillionaire
Aug 29 2005, 11:25 PM
Anyone did a real DD on this one? Owner? Where is it based? Registered? Etc, etc, etc...
Global*Money
Aug 30 2005, 06:46 PM
#6 If you want to announce a new program on the forum, please make sure the name of the program is somewhere in the title of your topic.
Guybrush please read forum rules and add the title of the program on the Topic or thread will be deleted.
easysun
Aug 30 2005, 11:52 PM
Anyone did a real DD on this one? Owner? Where is it based? Registered? Etc I want to knowB
Guybrush83
Aug 31 2005, 02:13 AM
From what I know the owners name is Jim Wingo. He is also involved in riskfreeprofit. He apparently uses surebetpro software.
To admin: I'm sorry but I'm quite new to this forum. How do I change my topic title?
goodfella
Sep 7 2005, 01:24 PM
Hey Yall
Has anyone done DD on this one yet?
Global*Money
Sep 7 2005, 06:17 PM
Why dont you invest straight into Riskfreeprofit themself? They are the real and professional ones
rainxp
Sep 9 2005, 10:08 PM
Are they able to prove their trades?
Eronimo
Sep 15 2005, 04:42 AM
For how long tey are existing?
jsully
Sep 15 2005, 06:21 AM
QUOTE(Devilboy @ Aug 18 2005, 01:17 AM)
Just because they paid you does not make them legit. They're probably just a ponzi. [right][snapback]384162[/snapback][/right]
At 2% a week and you think they are a ponzi? Think not - those usually are 2% a day. This one is legit and yes he is using the SureBetPro software. You can't lose.
pedash
Sep 25 2005, 03:25 PM
From their FAQ :
QUOTE
Q: Do I have to maintain a certain balance in my account in order to remain active? A: All members must maintain a balance of $150 in their account. Of course you can cancel your account at any time and you will receive your entire balance.
So we must have $150 in our account ? What about the min invest of $50 ?
freedomnow2005
Sep 25 2005, 08:14 PM
Send an email to TAS for more info on this one. They have done DD and it seems to check out.
logan
Sep 25 2005, 09:37 PM
I got the email from TAS and yes they seem to be legit and trustworthy but these darn Goldcoder scripts always scare me.
TAS can you post an update here for everyone??
pedro
Sep 25 2005, 10:31 PM
By the way, I don't think that this program was suppose to be mentioned here. I discovered this program a few days ago and when I contacted the admin about putting the program on forums they said that they do not want the program listed on any forums.
jsully
Sep 26 2005, 07:38 AM
QUOTE(pedro @ Sep 25 2005, 11:31 PM)
By the way, I don't think that this program was suppose to be mentioned here. I discovered this program a few days ago and when I contacted the admin about putting the program on forums they said that they do not want the program listed on any forums. [right][snapback]462255[/snapback][/right]
Maybe this thread should be deleted if that is their wish.
Student
Sep 26 2005, 10:03 AM
I joined this yesterday and made my 1st spend today.
Guybrush83
Sep 26 2005, 12:46 PM
It is really great news that team A and S has done their due diligence. Jim Wingo has proved himself.
Sierra has recently moved their business to Las Vegas to be free of restricting gambling laws. In my opinion a great move:-)
Hi Folks, I have read the posts about this incredible business. I just joined but I am unclear of how exactly the money is made. Would somebody be kind enough to explain it? Also what would be my next step to getting started?
Respectfully, Drummer :
Student
Sep 28 2005, 07:57 PM
QUOTE(Drummer @ Sep 28 2005, 07:39 PM)
Hi Folks, I have read the posts about this incredible business. I just joined but I am unclear of how exactly the money is made. Would somebody be kind enough to explain it? Also what would be my next step to getting started?
Have you read this part of the FAQ from the website? (If yes, what don't you understand?):
QUOTE
Q: How are you able to pay such high interest rates? A: We have developed a very sophisticated investment system that utilizes a proprietary software program which allows us to take advantage of a little known investment strategy known as Sports Arbitrage Trading. We make hundreds of small trades each month which yield somewhere between 1.5% and 10%. These are all short term trades that return a guaranteed profit within 2 or 3 days. This allows us to continually "roll over" our funds every few days.
Q: Exactly what is Arbitrage trading? A: Arbitrage is a trading technique whereby exactly offsetting positions are taken in a market simultaneously but at different prices. The difference in price represents an immediate risk-free profit that is independent of the subsequent movement in price of the instruments traded. Although Sports Arbitrage trading involves wagering on various sporting events, it SHOULD NOT be confused with gambling. Gambling carries a risk! With Sports Arbitrage Trading there is NO RISK because the amount of profit is determined BEFORE the trade is entered into. It is impossible to lose money. Here's a brief description of how Sports Arbitrage trading works.
There are currently thousands of online wagering sites. There are also an estimated 500,000,000 sports wagers made with these sites ever single day! This high volume creates competition among these sites. Consequently, different sites sometimes offer slightly different odds on the same sporting event. In some cases they actually offer substantially different odds. The difference in the odds determines the amount of risk free profit to be made by the Sports Arbitrage Trader.
Example: Below are bookmakers odds for an NBA game between Miami and Phoenix We wager $500 on Miami with betting site A at odds of 1/1. We wager $400 on Phoenix with betting site B at odds of 6/4. The total amount traded is $500 + $400 or $900 total. If Miami wins we receive $1,000 from bookmaker A (our $500 wager plus a profit of $500). If Phoenix wins we receive $1,000 from bookmaker B (our $400 wager plus a profit of $600). So the profit, no matter who wins, is $100 ($1000 - $900). We make hundreds of trades like this each month that all yield between 1.5% and 10% profit.
Q: This sounds too good to be true. Is Arbitrage trading legal? A: Earning from Arbitrage Trading is perfectly legal, moral and ethical!
Q: Do I have to maintain a certain balance in my account in order to remain active? A: All members must maintain a balance of $150 in their account. Of course you can cancel your account at any time and you will receive your entire balance.
Q: How do I withdraw funds from my account? A: You can withdraw funds at any time by logging into your back office and clicking on "Withdraw Funds". You then enter the amount you wish to withdraw and click the "Submit" button. We will then issue payment directly to your EGold account, your INTgold account or your Pay Pal account within 72 hours.
Q: Is my investment safe? A: First of all it's important to understand that, while we are operating as an investment club, you are not purchasing stock, securities or anything that can increase or decrease in value. You do not have to worry about when to sell or when to buy. As we explained before---Sports Arbitrage trading is virtually "risk free". We "buy" AND "sell" simultaneously and we ALWAYS lock in a guaranteed profit on every trade. The amount of profit is determined BEFORE the trade is entered into. Consequently, your funds are NEVER at risk!
lsjimm
Sep 29 2005, 04:17 PM
I have been trying to withdraw money from them for over a week. They have not responded to any of my e-mails yet.
Drummer
Sep 29 2005, 05:35 PM
QUOTE(logan @ Sep 26 2005, 12:37 AM)
I got the email from TAS and yes they seem to be legit and trustworthy but these darn Goldcoder scripts always scare me.
TAS can you post an update here for everyone?? [right][snapback]462169[/snapback][/right]
What does TAS stand for? If this is some sort of credit agency, can you please provide a tel# or an email for them.
Thanks
Drummer
Sep 29 2005, 05:41 PM
QUOTE(lsjimm @ Sep 29 2005, 07:17 PM)
I have been trying to withdraw money from them for over a week. They have not responded to any of my e-mails yet. [right][snapback]471485[/snapback][/right]
Can you please let us know when your withdrawl is complete.
Thanks
Drummer
Sep 29 2005, 05:43 PM
QUOTE(Guybrush83 @ Sep 26 2005, 03:46 PM)
It is really great news that team A and S has done their due diligence. Jim Wingo has proved himself.
Sierra has recently moved their business to Las Vegas to be free of restricting gambling laws. In my opinion a great move:-)
Have you tried to withdraw money to see as to how fast they are?
Thanks
Student
Sep 29 2005, 05:54 PM
QUOTE(Drummer @ Sep 29 2005, 06:35 PM)
What does TAS stand for? If this is some sort of credit agency, can you please provide a tel# or an email for them.
Thanks [right][snapback]471588[/snapback][/right]
TAS = Team Aaron Shara
A highly respected couple that runs a hyip newsletter to almost 20,000 subscribers.
Student
Oct 4 2005, 10:19 PM
Interest credited and compounded.
chinbiz
Oct 5 2005, 12:54 AM
I am also in this!
Pipster
Oct 5 2005, 01:56 AM
QUOTE(lsjimm @ Sep 29 2005, 04:17 PM)
I have been trying to withdraw money from them for over a week. They have not responded to any of my e-mails yet. [right][snapback]471485[/snapback][/right]
This is not good at all!
I was just reading the info on site,i see on home page they let you join with any amount from $50 and up,while in the faq section it states that in order to have active account at all times minimum of $150 required,this is as far as i m concerned misleading and provides different kind of info to people,also the faq states withdrawls honored within 72 hours,and here we see report of lack of communication along with not honoring their own terms already at that stage. The return offered is achievable through SBP software,i know some big promoters pushing this program and believe this to be real and true due to the claim of real product used and the low reeturn promised vs other hyip program out there which tend to vanish sooner or later regardless of their claims,however the use of their ecurrencies while none of those accepted by any bookie and conversions on the way along with financial fees and nature of this kind of arb trading don't convince me this program is ac actually real along with the fact that they use that stinky script and to gain significant profit would take quite long if one is compounding as expected to do.The fact that they offer also high incentive for big recruiter to promote them don't make me feel any better about this one.
moneylover
Oct 5 2005, 06:38 AM
I got the withdrawl within 24 hours of request.
They do reply email very fast & good communication from them.
Student
Oct 5 2005, 06:54 AM
Received response within 10 hrs of email:
QUOTE
Sierra Investment Club Support request from Wednesday 05th of October 2005 01:17:37 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------- When I want to withdraw, how do I go about moving my deposit to acct. balance.
Click on "Your deposits" then click on the "Release" link next to your listed deposit(s). You will then have the ability to enter an amount that you want to release. Enter that amount and then click "Submit"
The only rule is that you must maintain a minimum balance of $150 in order to keep your account open.
Pipster
Oct 5 2005, 08:09 PM
QUOTE(Student @ Oct 5 2005, 06:54 AM)
Received response within 10 hrs of email: [right][snapback]483470[/snapback][/right]
Why do they take $50 if minimum to be active is $150?
Student pl check and let us know how long took for the reply to hit your mail box too,
Thank you
Student
Oct 6 2005, 04:20 AM
QUOTE(Pipster @ Oct 5 2005, 09:09 PM)
Why do they take $50 if minimum to be active is $150?
Student pl check and let us know how long took for the reply to hit your mail box too,
Thank you [right][snapback]484779[/snapback][/right]
ok.. this took less than 6hrs., during my sleep:
At the present time you can make a minimum deposit of $50. In order to withdraw funds and keep your account active you must have in excess of $150 in your account. You can then withdraw anything over $150. Of course you can close your account and withdraw all of your funds at any time.
Pipster
Oct 6 2005, 04:40 AM
QUOTE(Student @ Oct 6 2005, 04:20 AM)
ok.. this took less than 6hrs., during my sleep:
At the present time you can make a minimum deposit of $50. In order to withdraw funds and keep your account active you must have in excess of $150 in your account. You can then withdraw anything over $150. Of course you can close your account and withdraw all of your funds at any time. [right][snapback]485395[/snapback][/right]
$50 deposit will be worth $80 after 6 months with 2% compounded weekly. $50 deposit would turn into $140 after 12 months of 2% weekly compounding.
Just to give some idea if they thinking of small deposits into here. Would this be there In a year from now.If one consideered bigger deposits for shorter terms is diffeent issue.
I take it that small players would be able to compound and withdraw and close their accounts ,then rejoin if they wish and bypass this term but it does take very long time to see significant return here.
Student
Oct 6 2005, 05:11 AM
Here's some interresting quick figures just made:
w/ SIC:
$1500 compounded weekly @ 2% for 6 weeks = $1722.16
Ok... I know there is more than 4 weeks per month a year. But I like my options here of access to my principal/interest anytime I want without monthly fees or long term comittment.
Not bashing other program, as I am sure after 52 weeks, the amount earned is much higher.
Shoot... I gotta run
Pipster
Oct 6 2005, 05:21 AM
QUOTE
Ok... I know there is more than 4 weeks per month a year. But I like my options here of access to my principal/interest anytime I want without monthly fees or long term comittment.
If this is true then by all means i see your points and its valid Just not feeling safe or secure over this one with what we have around
I or you can come up tomorrow with similar version based on the fact RFP and SBP softeare is there and offer same kind of investment program and pay 2% without even using SBP to begin with
Have you made any DD to see real trading history with these guys ?
You have a good day,we can keep on later on
Global*Money
Oct 6 2005, 06:05 AM
QUOTE(Student @ Oct 6 2005, 06:11 AM)
Here's some interresting quick figures just made:
w/ SIC:
$1500 compounded weekly @ 2% for 6 weeks = $1722.16
w/ 'other' program:
$1500 compounded weekly @ 4.5% for 6 weeks = $1953.36 - ($139/4 weeks + $69.5/ 2 weeks) = $1745.86 ----- Ok... I know there is more than 4 weeks per month a year. But I like my options here of access to my principal/interest anytime I want without monthly fees or long term comittment.
Not bashing other program, as I am sure after 52 weeks, the amount earned is much higher. Shoot... I gotta run [right][snapback]485458[/snapback][/right]
Hi Student
w/ SIC $1500 compounded weekly @ 2% for 1 year (52 weeks) = $4284.50
w/ "other program" $1500 compounded weekly @ 4.7% for 1 year (52 weeks) = $15619.78 - 12x$139 ( $1668) = $13951.78 = principle return $1500 = $15451.78 *"other program" exclude earning from matrix and software trading.
"other program" online since May 2004. Reputation we need not say
Imagine if you can withdraw anytime, people might be able to hit and run away anytime. The reason why "other program" need to hold your money for some time is because of the nature of arbitrage Sport betting Some Bookies hold up your fund for some period. So is that semi ponzi or?
Of cause i am bashing any program. This might just be the next long term program too. And suitable for people who cannot afford $139 for "other program" I would say its a good alternative for some people. Great service
Hopefully you can get some nice return here So far it looks ok to me
Student
Oct 6 2005, 09:41 AM
QUOTE(Pipster @ Oct 6 2005, 06:21 AM)
If this is true then by all means i see your points and its valid Just not feeling safe or secure over this one with what we have around
I or you can come up tomorrow with similar version based on the fact RFP and SBP softeare is there and offer same kind of investment program and pay 2% without even using SBP to begin with
Have you made any DD to see real trading history with these guys ?
You have a good day,we can keep on later on [right][snapback]485470[/snapback][/right]
QUOTE
Have you made any DD to see real trading history with these guys ?
Personally, no... However, I have trust with them since they have passed TAS new DD process.
Pipster
Oct 6 2005, 09:54 AM
QUOTE(Student @ Oct 6 2005, 09:41 AM)
Personally, no... However, I have trust with them since they have passed TAS new DD process. [right][snapback]485944[/snapback][/right]
Let me just tell you one thing,looking at their referral structure they do encourage promtion and getting new members in and they pay for this quite generously for the big promoters.
I am familiar with few others as TAS with big newsletters list promoting this and claiming this to be real..and you know what..i have my doubts till i will see real snap shots showing that they are first of using SBP software and doing well..
Coz as things stand right now..i can launch similar program withoiut any real back up and pay the 2% weekly and last pretty long only on new spends coming in due to the ref. program and the fact the payout rate is real low and encourage most to compound for long terms too.
Another contradiction i dislike with this program is the fact that they do offer high incentives for recruiting but at same time pretend to prefer being away of public forums..why is that??
Student
Oct 6 2005, 09:59 AM
QUOTE(Global*Money @ Oct 6 2005, 07:05 AM)
Hi Student
w/ SIC $1500 compounded weekly @ 2% for 1 year (52 weeks) = $4284.50
w/ "other program" $1500 compounded weekly @ 4.7% for 1 year (52 weeks) = $15619.78 - 12x$139 ( $1668) = $13951.78 = principle return $1500 = $15451.78 *"other program" exclude earning from matrix and software trading.
"other program" online since May 2004. Reputation we need not say Imagine if you can withdraw anytime, people might be able to hit and run away anytime. The reason why "other program" need to hold your money for some time is because of the nature of arbitrage Sport betting Some Bookies hold up your fund for some period. So is that semi ponzi or?
Of cause i am bashing any program. This might just be the next long term program too. And suitable for people who cannot afford $139 for "other program" I would say its a good alternative for some people. Great service
Hopefully you can get some nice return here So far it looks ok to me [right][snapback]485547[/snapback][/right]
QUOTE
Reputation we need not say
Sorry, they did not impress me one bit by bit*hing at me what they should be bitc*ing at themselves for not training sales force/ recruitors.
Keep telling me hrs., when it should've been weeks. Telling me pool is a 'bonus'
I just hope when all of you have over $10000 each in the pool, that the traders are still able to place such huge amounts with bookmakers to keep your % @ 4.7
But even with my personal dealings with them, I still think they can be a good opportunity for the majority....
Like I told you in IM... maybe in 6 months/ yr. I'll have a couple K to tie up with them (plus be able to add monthly exspense). Just dealing with some personal issues right now.
Global*Money
Oct 6 2005, 10:28 AM
QUOTE(Student @ Oct 6 2005, 10:59 AM)
Sorry, they did not impress me one bit by bit*hing at me what they should be bitc*ing at themselves for not training sales force/ recruitors.
Keep telling me hrs., when it should've been weeks. Telling me pool is a 'bonus'
I just hope when all of you have over $10000 each in the pool, that the traders are still able to place such huge amounts with bookmakers to keep your % @ 4.7
But even with my personal dealings with them, I still think they can be a good opportunity for the majority....
Like I told you in IM... maybe in 6 months/ yr. I'll have a couple K to tie up with them (plus be able to add monthly exspense). Just dealing with some personal issues right now. [right][snapback]485982[/snapback][/right]
Well, think about it. They could have easily open up e-gold payment and start accepting payment, Of course its their fault telling you hours instead of week, but sometimes banks issues are pretty complicated. I have no comment on that and very glad it has finally open up and has listened to the members suggestion of accepting also e-gold currency.
Pool is a good bonus for the member, thats why they are limiting to $600 for non-recruiter and qualified members $1500. Well, they could have just open up investment of $2000 or more right at the start. More people are betting online, putting money into gambling online. It will only build more opportunity for the bookmakers. So in fact this is a booming business if you can look at the big picture.
Anyway there are so many good programs around. I am sure your portfolio will be a nice one. So far you are doing really great
Good luck
Student
Oct 11 2005, 12:19 PM
QUOTE(Student @ Oct 4 2005, 11:19 PM)
Interest credited and compounded. [right][snapback]482830[/snapback][/right]
Ditto ^ Again
Student
Oct 18 2005, 01:30 PM
Received Weekly Interest As Usual
Update:
QUOTE
Our site was down for awhile today. We were the victim of a DDoS attack which took our port down. The good news is that we have very sophisticated software that prevented our losing any data. We are back up and everything is running smoothly.
Our trading is still going well. All Interest payments are being covered along with all overhead.
IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT
When we launched Sierra it was our intention to grow to about 500 members and then close the program to new members. We are getting close to that number now so this is our official notice that as of midnight Central time November 14th we will not accept any new members. This will NOT affect any current members. Current members will still be able to make new deposits and commissions WILL be paid on these deposits. The only thing that will change is that we will not allow any new members. Therefore any advertising that you may have in place will need to be cancelled as of November 15th.
This action will make your Sierra membership more secure. It's a simple fact that the bigger an online company gets the more risk there is for all members. No matter how hard a company tries it is extremely difficult to eliminate spam complaints, etc. This can cause a webhost to "pull the plug" on a website. By keeping our membership at a reasonable level we can control potential problems. If we don't allow new members then there is no reason for anyone to spam and make outrageous claims that can get us into trouble. I'd also like to remind everyone that all new members are required to make a deposit of at least $50 within 30 days of signing up. Our system is now automatically deleting all accounts that are 30 days old and have not made a deposit. If you have noticed people missing from your list of referrals it is because their account has been deleted.
There is still some confusion as to what our minimum deposit is. At the present time you can make a minimum deposit of $50. Interest begins accumulating as soon as you make the deposit. In order to withdraw funds and keep your account active you must have in excess of $150 in your account. You can then withdraw anything over $150. Of course you can close your account and withdraw all of your funds at any time.
ONE MORE TIME---WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN "MAKE DEPOSIT" AND "MAKE DEPOSIT TO ACCOUNT"
We still have people clicking on "Make Deposit To Account" when they should be clicking on "Make Deposit". Once again---If you click on "Make Deposit To Account" your funds will go into your account balance, not your investment account. If you have funds exceeding $50.00 in your account balance you need to log into your account, click "Make Deposit" then select "Spend from account balance (PayPal, INTgold or e-gold)", then enter the amount and then click "Spend". This will transfer your funds into your investment account. Your funds WILL NOT earn interest unless they are in your investment account. If you have funds spread out over multiple currency accounts (a few dollars in your e-gold account balance, a few dollars in your Pay pal account, etc.) you need to use the "Currency exchange" function to transfer your account balance funds into one currency Then you can transfer the funds from your account balance into your deposit account.
If you have any questions about this please let us know. We are here to help.
Sincerely, Jim W. President
Student
Oct 25 2005, 03:40 PM
QUOTE
We have been under a DDOS attack since last night. It appears that this has stopped but the attackers were able to modify a piece of code that is now stopping people from accessing the site. We're working on this problem and hope to have it fixed shortly.
YanG85
Oct 31 2005, 04:04 AM
hi student, where did you get the message from?? i wnted to take a look at it, but seems that the site is down....
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