they tried to start drilling for oil in alaska but all the environazis went crazy and I am pretty sure we do at least some drilling in the gulf because I always see them repairing oil rigs when I visit my grandfather down there and I am pretty sure they are all used in the gulf.
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Such a thing against opec can't bring the prices down. What are they gonna do? Impose economic sanctions against them?
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Nuclear energy on the other hand can be created by man and technology. Time to move on from oil. I hope humankind can make it another 1000 years or so, but at this rate I doubt it
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Uranium/Plutonium isotopes are scarce resources as well
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OK I'm not an expert at this but I would guess that the amount of Uranium/Plutonium needed in order to create X amount of energy ready to be used is much lower than the equivalent of oil, considering world supply availablity.

have a look at this article

Try to see this from an international point of view, not just from US's point of view. Consider that the fastest growing economy in the world has been, still is and is very likely to continue to be China. Thats 1.5 billion people. 1/5 of the world. Can you imagine the energy needs that China will have if its GDP keeps growing at this pace.

Sooner or later it's gonna be the biggest economy in the world and because their economy is very much based on International Commerce it will have a HUGE impact in all the rest of the world. There are no oil supplies in the world that would be able to satisfy those energy needs while keeping oil prices where they are now.

Actually it has been this (China's growth) one of the main factors of oil prices going up. Not US-Arab relationship like most people think.

Funny thing is that China's huge economic growth and superavit (in great extent fueled by the devaluated Yuan) resulted in a huge affluence of asian funds being deposited in US Securities Bonds, which in turn keeps American Interest Rates low, which in turn keeps american mortgage takers happy and taking more and more debt, which in turn keeps real estate prices high and households with a high level of spending, low level of savings, and all these combined keep the US economy rolling.

Funny cycle
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Typical USA political BS.

We have huge fields in alaska, off the florida coast in the gulf of mexico etc... Time to worry less about the beaches and more about us.. I know the florida millionaires will argue that it will mess up the beaches and slow tourism.. but lets look at the bottom line the $$$$...

Ok so tourism brings in X amount of money to florida in a year. Now if we could factor how much floridians/Americans as a whole would save if more oil was drilled here this is a Y value.
So X - Y = B right? B being the bottom line. So would doing this save EVERYONE more money then is made by not drilling?

The bottom line is it doesnt matter cause the people with the money make the rules and right now everyone is happy except Mr Blue collar worked . The oil companies are happy to receive the higher $ per barrel. The tourism industry is happy getting all that money. So we are stuck crying at the pump. This is just more propaganda for them to say "We are trying" instead of attacking the problem in a serious manner.

Ok I am done venting...
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Well all I gotta say about that is... " We got the Bombs" ... LOL
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This morning I saw in the CNN that the US Congress was discussing measures to close markets to China's exports if China didn't revalue the Yuan bacuse the devaluated Yuan was giving China an unfair competitive advantage.

What would Europe have to do then? Should they demand US to revalue its dollar or threaten to close markets? 

What are these protectionist measures all about? Isn't US supposed to be a role model of Free Market?
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well, if the chinese govt did things right then revaluing the yuan will immediately kill off the US economy... why?
1. the chinese govt and other asian countries hold the bulk of US debt (US-Ts, etc).
2. before revaluing yuan - sell off all US assets.  at same time, this will send yields soaring...
3. repatriate proceeds back to yuan
4. revalue yuan
5. buy back the USD - will get more USD for the same amount of yuan
6. buy back the US assets, which are cheap now

what i would give to see that happen... i wonder if the guys sitting on capital hill considered this scenario?
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You must remember that ALOT of countries are in debt to the USA. So this "power play" wouldnt be as effective as you think and it would in turn cause WW3. China knows that now isnt the time for such a thing. Remember the USA has the most powerful military on the planet and if pushed for a monetary power play would react. Is that what China wants?
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well, if the chinese govt did things right then revaluing the yuan will immediately kill off the US economy... why?
1. the chinese govt and other asian countries hold the bulk of US debt (US-Ts, etc).
2. before revaluing yuan - sell off all US assets.  at same time, this will send yields soaring...
3. repatriate proceeds back to yuan
4. revalue yuan
5. buy back the USD - will get more USD for the same amount of yuan
6. buy back the US assets, which are cheap now

what i would give to see that happen... i wonder if the guys sitting on capital hill considered this scenario?
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China is increasing its military by over 10% a year.
They dont have any problem with the draft.
US's military is SPREADED over the globe
US's military is underfunded for the surface it covers
Recruiters have a lot of problems in the US
Us is pushing china to revalue the yuan, while doing so gives them 30% more power to buy anything (oil and US companies)
China would definitively drop US loans and push the yuan further up
Why would US attack china? Because they are the biggest country in the world and are becoming one of the biggest economies that will soon rule over america? Yeah, can't let that happen. US have to bomb them, because they cannot be better.
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lol, china should agree first

and revaluing yuan - a sudden increase or decrease in the value of nations currency  will affect its economy badly and now china is keeping its currency value in euilibrium state and everyone know they can determine its value themselves and don't change it for years. thats why everyone consider it as a stable economic nation. and many foreign investment comes to it due to its stability.

its intresting to see your second commend, before ravaluing sell of all US asset and on 5 the point buy back the USD - will get more USD for same amount of yuan. Just think this , china have the largest USD reserve and most of the USD asssets , if they started to sell down USD asset  what will happen to USD value. it will went down  and it will directly affect US economy , but it also affect other nations economy including china too, though its not much sever for them they have to consider it before selling off US assets. the main reason is the value of USD is actually in the hands of china and india ( second largest USD reserve) , do you think value of USD will remain stable even after a war against afghanistan then to iraq and also world trade centre collapse?  china and india bought USD to make thier economy stable so they combined have largest reserve and they have to think about many thing before selling USD reserve , unlike other coutries currency USD is the world currency.

Abut our staring topic , the petroleum - Now also we have many energy alternatives. and scientist knew about it. we can produce diesel , petrol from any type of oil , the oil which we are wasting too, also solar energy ,nuclear energy etc.  and cost of production is cheaper than petroleum , but the real problem is OPEC countries will not allow it. and all automobile companies can't shift thier engines design suitable for the new energy. these two are the major rivals against rise of a new power source.  In other words , though the cost of production is cheaper , this made us to shift our machines to adopt new technology which is more costly . in future it will change, i thin when it reach 70-80$ per barrel we, humans will  begin shifted to new technology for new energy source, i don't think it will cross 100$.  the biggest energy source is SUN itself   ( courtesy -  from a past discussion with  my friend who is a chemical engineer and he produced diesel from edible oil)
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I think it will spike over 80 for a while, probably 100. but it should decrease fast enough because of the "shock" effect.

Remember that a car's lifetime is 17 years on average. All industries are running on oil and you just cant change that in 5 years. Nuclear fission is a short-term answer, nuclear fision is an eternal answer

And from another thread I started, you can make diesel from Hemp. and its the plant that is the most effective in doing so. many times more productive than corn and sugar cane.
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I don't think US attack china, if so they are killing themselves.
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i only meant scientist know the answers only need the approval from industrialist and countries - people who is controlling this market. nuclear fusion or fision, both are not necessary now, they already started research for and almost theoretically did it - which is useful i think after 300 years atleast. technology is advance not in the common man's side.

sure you can make it from hemp or any type of oil , whether its industrial oil or bio or anything.
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My "lets bomb china" sentence was an undirect sarcastic reply to some hummer-driver's thoughts.
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I think it will spike over 80 for a while, probably 100. but it should decrease fast enough because of the "shock" effect.

Remember that a car's lifetime is 17 years on average. All industries are running on oil and you just cant change that in 5 years. Nuclear fission is a short-term answer, nuclear fision is an eternal answer

And from another thread I started, you can make diesel from Hemp. and its the plant that is the most effective in doing so. many times more productive than corn and sugar cane.
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On an economic point of view, the shift should be done now. Look at brazil, they switched to Biodiesel 30 years ago, and now their fuel is 50% cheaper than anywhere on the planet.

How much will oil cost in 30 years? Time to make the shift now I think, at least faster than now.  In canada, in my province, at least 35% will come from renewables within 5 years, which is nice.

We have to think about the environment too. Canada's oil reserves are 170 Billions barrels, second to saudi arabia, and we are the biggest exporter of oil to the US.  Our oil lies in the sand, we have to MINE oil. and we need natural gas to extract the oil from the sand, to heat it.  This makes the canadian oil the most destructive for the environment.
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Did you mean to say Nuclear Fusion is an eternal answer?? If so, I totally back that!! I mean fuels like Lithium are just plentiful in the earth's crust. If all the world's electricity were to be provided by fusion, known reserves would last for at least a millenium!! Also, other fuels like Deuterium, and Tritium can also be extracted both naturally and mechanically!!

Although, implementation of this did not look probable at the time I studied at Uni ( 10 years ago ), it surely looks a prospect now!!
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Did you mean to say Nuclear Fusion is an eternal answer?? If so, I totally back that!! I mean fuels like Lithium are just plentiful in the earth's crust. If all the world's electricity were to be provided by fusion, known reserves would last for at least a millenium!! Also, other fuels like Deuterium, and Tritium can also be extracted both naturally and mechanically!!

Although, implementation of this did not look probable at the time I studied at Uni ( 10 years ago ), it surely looks a prospect now!!
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for the business man, they need business not serving of humans. do you think  general motors , mercedez, etc etc and OPEC nations will agree  'why we need money  we can shift to other resource and save human kind'  they will compell us to use this and make maximum profit, ofcourse the extreme capitalism 
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Yeah I meant fusion, and I edited that Actually the material needed for fusion can be taken from sea water. We would have enough ressources for billions of years. (and its not poluting the water, you know how isotopes work)

I dont know why governments arent funding this more. I guess we'll see in 7 days, the deadline for japan to accept France's bid, or to quit and make its own. The plans have been ready since 2001.. time to build it
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wow nice discussion.
China won't revalue the Yuan. Not in the short or mid term. Maybe very gradually over the next years. But not now, not suddenly.
That would be very bad for China and for US.

And Kenny, if US decided to go to war with China, it would be the end of US. I hope it doesn't happen coz I want to take my kids to Disney World
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Chinese Oil Company's Hostile $18.5 Billion Bid for Unocal Could Face National Security Hurdles

LOS ANGELES (AP) -- The hostile $18.5 billion bid from the Chinese state-owned oil company CNOOC Ltd. to buy oil and gas company Unocal Corp. on Thursday has significant regulatory hurdles to overcome, not least of which is whether the deal would threaten national security.

Chevron Corp., which has a deal in place to buy Unocal for nearly $16.6 billion in cash and stock, said it will not sweeten its bid for Unocal -- at least not yet.

"We're satisfied with the bid we have on the table," Peter Robertson, Chevron vice chairman, said in an interview on CNBC. "We think it's still the best opportunity for the shareholders."

Unocal said Wednesday its board will consider the CNOOC offer. The company, based in El Segundo, said it had no new comment on the bid Thursday.

Already, Congress was building pressure on the Bush administration to carefully examine the bid by CNOOC, which is 70 percent owned by the Chinese government.

A letter to Treasury Secretary John Snow was circulating in Congress on Thursday, also calling on the Bush administration to investigate the national security implications of the proposed deal. It had been so far been signed by Rep. William J. Jefferson (D-La.), Al Green (D-Texas), Bobby Jindal (R-La.) and Kevin Brady (R-Texas).

Snow, who chairs a federal panel that considers security risks of foreign firms buying or investing in U.S. companies, told a Senate Finance Committee hearing on China's currency system that he expects both parties to voluntarily submit to a review.

Other officials have also said they will press for a federal review.

"It's not a business transaction at all," said C. Richard D'Amato, chairman of the U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission, a congressional advisory panel.

"This is not a free market deal. This is the Chinese government acquiring energy resources."

Even before CNOOC made its offer, two members of Congress appealed to President Bush last week to review it for possible security threats. They warned of China's "pursuit of world energy resources."

Robertson told CNBC that a Chevron deal would put more oil and gas into the commercial market.

"Americans are worried about the supply of oil and gas. There is an issue here of who can put more oil and gas into the market on a commercial basis. I think if the Chinese government buys this asset, you can be sure that much of these materials will go to China," Robertson said.

But many oil industry experts said that fears being stirred up in Congress over the potential deal are unwarranted, and warned the response could make it harder for U.S. oil giants to gain the international access they need to grow.

Moreover, they said a deal between CNOOC and Unocal could benefit U.S. companies, consumers and workers in the long run.

"This is not a company building military aircraft or missile technology. This is energy, at the end of the day," said Lawrence Goldstein, president of the nonprofit Petroleum Industry Research Foundation in New York.

Because Unocal's resource base in the United States is relatively small -- it is Unocal's Asian assets that CNOOC is really interested in -- analysts said there is no genuine supply threat to the U.S. market, which imports almost 10.5 million barrels of oil per day.

CNOOC said the acquisition would more than double its production and estimated that 85 percent of the combined reserves of both companies are located in Asia and the Caspian Sea region.

Oil analyst Fadel Gheit at Oppenheimer & Co. in New York said it would be the "pinnacle of hypocrisy" for the United States to put roadblocks in CNOOC's way considering that Bush and others in his administration have repeatedly scolded Russia for not opening its doors wide enough to U.S. oil companies.

"American companies must expand globally, but if we cut off people from coming into our country other countries will just block our companies from doing the same," Gheit said.

Chevron, based in San Ramon, Calif., might raise its bid slightly, but is not likely to engage in a bidding way with the Chinese government, said Gene Gillespie, an oil analyst with investment firm Howard Weil Inc.

"I think Chevron is more financially disciplined than that," Gillespie said.

Chevron is not under a lot of pressure to do anything in the short term, Gillespie said, because of the high degree of uncertainty over whether the CNOOC bid would be approved. The company might raise the cash portion of its bid slightly but will not get involved in what he describes as "a bidding war with an irrational competitor."

"They don't care about returns," Gillespie said of CNOOC. "They have an unlimited amount of money behind them."

Another scenario is that the three companies negotiate a deal to divide Unocal's assets. CNOOC has already said it would sell off the company's U.S.-based operations.

"Maybe the three of them want to sit down and carve up Unocal and take the assets," said Brian Hicks, co-portfolio manager of the Global Resources Fund, which owns shares of CNOOC. "That make sense."

Unocal shares rose 16 cents, or 0.2 percent, to close at $65.02 on the New York Stock Exchange. Chevron shares fell 94 cents, or 1.6 percent, to close at $57.33 on the NYSE.

'
How do you figure that would be the end of the US? Lets see according to the last treaty deal we are allowed 2500 nuks. Todays Nuks as opposed to the ones that we hit japan (end of ww2) are like 150,000 TIMES the explosive release. So how many would it take to kill 1.5 billion people? 10 maybe 15? This doesnt even mention that we can basically crank em out easily.

Just for the record I have nothing against China or basically any other country in the world. Just saying that maybe all the stuff we read in the paper (or on a website) or see on tv / hear on the radio is TRUE.
I am not looking forward to a war and to get back on topic. Does anyone know that you can make Diesel from used cooking oil? Its a simple process that ANYONE can do in thier garage. Just takes a couple of tanks, some mixing agent etc. The great thing is that you dont have to change filters or make any other adjustments to your vehicle. I actually witnessed the processed on one of those Sunday morning mechanic shows on TNN.
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Keep in mind China was one of the winners of WW2 and for that reason part of the selected group of countries allowed to have nuclear power. China hasn't been too vocal about their nuclear capacity but we all know they have it. One bomb falling in China would trigger a couple falling in US and there you go, bye bye world
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Keep in mind China was one of the winners of WW2 and for that reason part of the selected group of countries allowed to have nuclear power. China hasn't been too vocal about their nuclear capacity but we all know they have it. One bomb falling in China would trigger a couple falling in US and there you go, bye bye world
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Keep in mind China was one of the winners of WW2 and for that reason part of the selected group of countries allowed to have nuclear power. China hasn't been too vocal about their nuclear capacity but we all know they have it. One bomb falling in China would trigger a couple falling in US and there you go, bye bye world
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So you think this would be like a chess match? USA moves pawn then lets China move? With a nuclear power like China the move wouldnt be drop one bomb and let them launch a counter offensive. The move would be to make China a wasteland in about 5 mins. You think the US doesnt know where China keeps its missles? Cmon man. It would be over before it started.

Hopefully China nevers makes such a stupid move. Cause that would probally set off WW3 and the end of humanity. Ever see the movie "War Games", what did the CPU conclude about a game that has no winner?
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So you think this would be like a chess match? USA moves pawn then lets China move? With a nuclear power like China the move wouldnt be drop one bomb and let them launch a counter offensive. The move would be to make China a wasteland in about 5 mins. You think the US doesnt know where China keeps its missles? Cmon man. It would be over before it started.

Hopefully China nevers makes such a stupid move. Cause that would probally set off WW3 and the end of humanity. Ever see the movie "War Games", what did the CPU conclude about a game that has no winner?
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Yeah that was a damn good movie. Read the book, then saw the movie.

I don't think you can wipe out 1.5 B people without getting any counter strike. China also has secret intelligence and that kindda stuff u know. I bet the moment George W is thinking about pressing that red button Jiang Zemin is saying: ok, let's go for it cowboy.

Difference is Americans care about americans' lives. They don't like american civilians/soldiers getting killed. I'm not so sure I can say the same about Chinese.

Hopefully none of the superpowers make such a stupid move. I don't think they will. They didn't during Cold War so why do it now?
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Americans care...the government doesn't. Ever heard of Iraq?
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Yeah but Chinese government care even less.
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