It is a pretty good program in terms of longevity compared to a lot of that did not last as long recently. Even naysayers can't deny it.

Nick doesn't sound like a quality conman, though. He would have been nothing without the MCF gang of pimps.

Truly an excellent post. It is such a pleasure to read something in this forum that makes sense for a change. The most vocal critics of p2p are the ones who don't even belong to it. Go Figure

How very true, it is impossible to reason with the cheerleaders, but you called them fools not me :-)



nice to know... always good to see who the people are that are stealing from the poor folks that didn't know any better and got roped in...



WOW.... ok nuff said... talk about a zealot.....



The problem is mr one post wonder that when this thing finally dies it's final death many more people will have lost money than made it and if you are ok with that it's up to you... nobody can force you to be a moral human being... which clearly you've chosen not to be.. .no problem whatever floats your boat

Pleasantly surprised to receive couple of payments for June 16th pending. Thanks P2P for many many payments since July 07.

Not bad at all, you should be pleased that would make your payment only 58 calendar days or 40 business days since requested, this baby is right on track, just like all legit businesses... nothing wrong with being 30 business days behind your TOS I mean those pesky terms are just a suggestion anyway it's not like P2P is a real business or anything like that...

Your integrity is in your imagination... you possess a dogged and persistent capacity to present weak arguments that include straw and circular reasoning built upon faulty and erroneous premises that are deduced and manufactured based on stereotyping while carefully avoiding the truth. Character assassination does not become you.

So P2P is still paying, just that it is way behind on payouts ?
But I guess not "safe" to "invest" in it, right ?

YAWN.... that is the best you got?

Ok so tell me what exactly was not true??

Is P2P paying within terms?

Can you provide one single shred of proof of ANYTHING that Nick has ever claimed??

Yeah, thought so... welcome Mr. One Post Wonder

Mr cvkint - in checking your posting history you have been predicting the death of P-2-P since September 2007. That is one year and it's still here PAYING. In addition, P-2-P has more members today than it did 6-7 months ago so your crusade of stopping newbees from joining is obviously not working.

Your new theme is that payments are late. I'm sure most readers here at some point in their life were late with payments. Stuff happens. The point is --- Payments are still being made.

I know - Your answer - With new people's money. Same answer you gave a year ago. Yet even after paying out for over a year at the rates that you claim aren't real P2P is still here.

Just considering his 30 day plan - He should have run out of "NEW Money" months ago and closed up shop. Some how he didn't.

I also notice that you are active in other forums spouting against P2P. Again I tell you your crusade is not working.

I honestly believe you are an educated and honest man who believes in what he is doing. BUT after a year Give it a rest. You have said everything that could possibly be said and P2P is still functioning.

I understand your intent and there is a use for it in these public forums but go find somewhere else to spout your wisdom. P2P is here to stay.

I hope that you give it a try so you can get FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE. Put in the minimum. Let it roll. Donate all the proceeds to your favorite charity. That will do more good than what you are trying to accomplish here.

I hope that I didn't offend you but You have written an encylclopedia here and other places and its all re-runs.

Peace

Ryne

Putting money into p2p won't give anyone first hand knowledge about how the program is operating. The only people who have that first hand knowledge are the operators of the scheme.

Regardless of who thinks what about ponzies, it is simply stupid to put money into a program that is so behind on payments as p2p currently is.

There are plenty of other ponzies if people feel the need to put money into schemes.

MattHugs, this is an excellent point. You hit the nail on the proverbial head. Expecting something for nothing is exactly how every Ponzi works. In a real investment, you have to do your due diligence and make sure your funds are being managed properly. In a program where the investments are "secret" or hidden, there is absolutely no way to even do any diligence. Thanks for your insight.

BTW, the reference to Kool Aid comes from the cult that Jim Jones ran back in the 70's. He caused mass suicide by having all of his members drink poisoned Kool Aid. It basically means being a blind follower.

Mark

It's a shame you refer to fools in the context of Proverbs, then misuse it here. I suggest you read the hundreds of references to fools in that Book, including the one that states that a fool and his money are soon parted.

Your reference to SS being a Ponzi to justify other Ponzis is false reasoning. It is also justifying bad behavior by pointing to other bad behavior. ALL Ponzis are wrong and illegal. If SS is a Ponzi, then the laws need to be changed.

You have indeed been "shown the money", i.e. someone else's. Unless and until Nick proves that he has outside investments which can be independently verified, then P2P can be nothing other than a Ponzi. That's just simple logic. If you're not already familiar with it, google "Occam's Razor" for more clarity.

Mark

I visit the p2p forum everyday. But I have no need to kiss anyones anything. I am happy with p2p.
I don't need anyones money. That doesn't make sense.

So explain this to me.

Unless you are a pimp looking to add to your downline, why would you be venturing on TG, MMG, etc. to engage in endless battles when p2p specifically requested its members to keep things private?

If you are not after the newbies and their money, then stick to your private forums. You would get less exposure with the regulatory agencies as well.

Most naysayers want to warn only the newbies anyhow, they are not after convincing the ponzi players to quit what they are doing.

Exactly!

Mark

I have not been to TG so, I guess we know now you go on and on with out knowing any facts.

I have never offered my referral to anyone nor have I told anybody to join. I don't have any referrals at all! Nor do I care if I have any or not.

You and others have been on your crusade to try and bring down p2p for some time and are unable to do it. The reason it is an endless battle for you is because what your doing, is not working. P2p is still going and people are still making money. If your really interested in helping people, why would you even try to bring down a program. Seems to me your more aimed at bringing down the program to make people lose money, just so you can say I told you so. Your trying to hurt people not help.
How many newbies do you think would listen to people that aren't members, don't have their facts straight and sound disgruntled and jealous because they aren't in it. I think your crusade has persuaded more people to join than not


Hi epeel2 always great to hear from you. Excellent post!

Correct

If? are you in america? SS is the biggest ponzi in existence. But thats getting off subject


congrats on your payout!


Nice post RD excellent points made

It was a collective "you" - as in you and other cheerleaders.

You personally still have not answered the question.

P2P has requested for the members to not participate in public forums with the information about P2P.

So why do you come here? Other than attracting new money, there can be no positive outcome for p2p from being discussed on public forums since it attracts the attention of the regulatory agencies like SEC.

P.S. Newbies listen to naysayers because unlike KoolAid drinkers some of them make sense.

Unfortunately for your crusade none of the naysayers in this thread make sense

Interesting, first of all we are in August so as you are having a little issue with dates it would not be a year since my first post in this thread... plus P2P will fail, you state I have predicted it but you don't say that I stated a time it would happen, as it's impossible to do so with these scams... secondly I have personally stopped dozens from joining, based on the PM, emails and posts here to that affect.. not to mention the others that did not join but chose not to say anything or did so NOT only because of posts myself and other naysayers made here.



Well I don't know how you can try to compare an online ponzi with a member of the general public being late on a phone bill to a real company.. but lets follow your lack of logic for a second...if you or me or anyone else was 58 days (40 business days) late on ANY payment do you think the company in question would just say hey don't worry about it we know these things happen? hahaha in the case of some bills 30 days overdue is enough to have your services cut off... so by all means if you want that comparison to stand you are welcome to it, but it really just proves how fake P2P is.



They aren't real and that my friend is why they are so far behind now, the money flow has turned off, or very far down...odd how you can't see that, or rather refuse to see it. If in fact Nick had all these millions and didn't need new money gave you give one logical honest reason why payments should ever be this far behind? There is no reason that makes sense in the real world...



Silly boy, he only runs out of money when people start asking for the big payments, for the first little while people that just endlessly roll over the money are Nick's dream.. but as you are seeing right now.. the money is drying up and Nickie can't make the payments within HIS stated terms anymore



Well it sure seems to be working just fine... P2P is almost dead finally and hopefully those that lost big in this one will have learned and NOT fall for the same old crap next time it's presented to them.. hopefully they will actually learn how to earn real money and from legit sources...



Oddly enough this is a discussion forum I am entitled to come here and post all I want, whether you think I should give it a rest or not.. just like you and anyone else that is a member here may do... it is kinda odd that you consider what P2P is doing right now to be functioning hahaha.... yup a finely tuned machine it is.



Oh my, I didn't realize we had a true believer on our hands...I also find it very interesting that YOU KNOW that P2P is here to stay somehow but are unable to share that with anyone... I'll tell you what and I will post here so all can see. If in one year from today P2P is still functioning fully within terms and everybody is being paid within that requested time I will donate $ 10,000 to the charity of your choice and I will post the receipt here for all to see...



If you had read as much as you claim you would know how silly your above statement is, but I'll let you figure it out...



Sorry champ but everything you just wrote is a re-run as well.. odd how the cheerleaders don't get they are doing exactly what they are complaining that the "naysayers" do.. difference is we know it's a repeat that is the only way to keep the msg in the public eye... don't worry you didn't and can't offend me this is not real life... I just hope when this one finally finishes for good you will have the courage to step up and admit you were wrong...

I do not have nor do I want any referrals either and I have never offered a link to anyone. I have never put any private information about p2p anywhere either. I simply come here to be entertained by unfortunates who know neither what they are talking about nor what they are missing. Some say it is only logical that Nick is a ponzi operator because he won't reveal his sources of income. This seems to be faulty logic. Nick is not revealing his income sources because he has stated many times that his portfolio is PRIVATE. What part of P-R-I-V-A-T-E don't some people understand? LOL

As for attracting attention from the SEC, LOL, nobody cares except those who don't know what they are talking about. Also, "WE" couldn't care less whether any new money comes into p2p from members. That is a non-issue.

Yes, LOL, it does make sense to say everybody with a private investment portfolio is a ponzi operator for not revealing the particulars of that portfolio. Give me Kool Aid over this kind of "sense" anytime.

Kool Aid, Kool Aid Tastes Great, Wish We Had Some, Can't Wait. OH YEAH!

I wonder why it's private? There is a huge difference between "private" and "secret". If P2P members are really "investors", then all they need to do is sign NDA's (Non-Disclosure Agreements) and have full access to documents that prove the investments are real.

This is how real investment clubs operate. These clubs also must be registered with the authorities with proof of investments on file. Many countries, like the US and Canada, only allow a certain # of participants in these clubs (in the US, it is up to 49 as I recall). In most countries, so-called "pooled investments" are illegal for that reason.

Regardless of what Nick may say, since he is a Canadian citizen, he and his "investments" are subject to Canadian law.

Don't take my word for it. You can go to the appropriate websites of these authorities and see for yourself. That is, of course, if you care enough to take the time to do so.

Mark

Come on now stop being all logical and stuff, P2P is great and real... and very private nobody can join without a referrer hehe... really? Maybe it's private like the non private forum... gosh do you think maybe this is all smoke and mirrors???



Pooled investments are not illegal FYI, but they do have very strict rules to follow this I know first hand. In many cases one must be an accredited investor which I believe means more than 1 million in net worth in the US, but that sounds like ALL the P2P members, right?

Your point about signing an NDA was the very first waving red flag from Nick when I spoke to him, first of all he didn't know what NDA stood for, very odd for a multi millionaire but then he made up some nonsense about his lawyer not allowing it hahaha...ummm that's his job dude...



yes, yes they are.... hope everyone is watching.... keep your eyes open...



Of course they aren't going anywhere to see any PROOF that P2P is illegal and a scam, because then they can't come screaming in here saying nobody provided any proof haha... well at least they are predictable... I can't imagine who is going to take this failure worse, Vinman or WASYLBRYTAN it's going to hit the both of them very hard with all the over the top cheerleading they do...well if nothing else I hope they learn from it

I made phonecalls to the appropriate authorities after visiting their websites and asked them about P2P. It was funny that none of them had ever heard of p2p. YEP, THAT PROVES P2P IS AN ILLEGAL PONZI ALRIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do you consider it CHEERLEADING to laugh at stupid and illogical posts? LOL

I'll even bet I know which part of this post you will copy and paste to quote me out of context, LOL

You've got some amazingly ignorant self-confident fools in this place vinman, but I started off talking about the futility of reasoning with them and the point is proven. so I'm off. God Bless you, Nick and P2P may it continue to bless others. Now paying Aug. 16 w/ OPM. LOL

I have learned so much, I learn that p2p was the best thing I ever joined in my life. I am glad to be a member. The only thing that hits me hard is the bank statement every time I get p2p money paid out to me. Hit me harder!!!


Yeah epeel no need to get worked up over them. Me and a few others have time to kill so we come in here to laugh at these people with no facts. They are all just so bitter that we are making money in something they are trying so hard to bring down.
I will see you in other forums with better conversations than whats going on in here. Unfortunately they won't listen or can't comprehend reason, I started off with that myself.
Oh'well at the end of the day we are still members of p2p making money, while they sit here watching us and wishing they joined

Why don't you call them back and describe how P2P operates? You might be surprised at their response.

Perhaps whoever you spoke with didn't know the name but you can count on the "spies" knowing. In fact, some are probably members and are in the private forum as we speak. That's how the authorities operate.

Mark

BTW, Cvkint, you are correct about the pooled investments requiring proof of funds etc. I didn't want to waste those details on the cheerleaders since they don't really care.

BTW where are YOUR facts? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaha



Yes sir Mr. Pot, Mr kettle comes here every day, just look for one of them thar posts by that Vinman fella,



Edit: KEEP THE PERSONAL ATTACKS OUT OF THIS FORUM!

Sorry I was rushed and I missed this gem from my fav poster hehe... sorry there champ but I bet all the people waiting on payments for the last 58 days wish some new money would show up and fast hahaha



Ahhh my funny little friend, you are once again missing the actual point... nobody said he should reveal anything to the general public but why he does not let the members see it after signing an NDA simply defies all logic.. so naturally you wouldn't understand that.

Time to move this one to a different folder.

Game over, folk.

http://www.ndsecurities.com/news/detail.asp?newsID=86

Even though I don't agree with the securities laws, they are binding until changed by lawmakers. It also does not matter now what Nick or anyone else says. P2P is now on the radar of the authorities. Unless they register as a security--which they won't--they are done.

Nick may claim that P2P is offshore but that is irrelevant. As long as he does business with members who are "onshore", all parties are subject to local laws. Again, I do not personally agree with all of this government interference but it is the reality of the situation.

This is just one state that is investigating. It is very likely that the Feds and/or RCMP are building a case as we speak. That's how they operate.

For the record, I am NOT happy that P2P is failing. I do feel for the people who came in late and will most likely lose all of their money. The cheerleaders think we naysayers are bad guys but we are just trying to help the unsuspecting.

Mark

People can think whatever they like about the securities laws.

I'm not a fan of them either.

But the people who join programs like p2p need to know that these programs are indeed violating the laws so that if they want to take a risk it is a calculated risk.

P2P is over. There is no way for it to recover after the investigation has started.

Putting money into it now is not only stupid, it is more dangerous than it needs to be.

So how do online casinos and sportsbooks get away with targeting the US and make $billions?

They don't sell securities and are governed under different laws.
They do also have to register with gaming commissions in their jurisdiction.
Also, they get away with the whole 'game of chance' thing.

K, I'll butt out again now.

So you're saying they are legal? Why isn't Calvin Ayre (former owner of Bodag) allowed in the US then, without risk of being arrested? I don't want to say I know all the ins and outs but the point I'm trying to make is there are ways around US laws. Even though online betting is illegal in the US, it creates $billions every year.

Contrarian is correct. Again, I don't necessarily agree with the laws but they can be enforced at will by the authorities at any time they choose.

Mark

Captain K, suggestion: go to BetUS.com and ask them directly. They are in Costa Rica.

It is a different set of laws than those than govern investments, the answer is still illegally.

Quite a few reputable online gambling establishments have stopped accepting the players from the USA.


Offshore money processors are still violating the laws by knowingly processing the payments for online gambling transactions if those transactions originate from the financial institutions in the USA. They can be in principle held liable for all such payments they process plus the fines.

Actually from what I understand is online sports betting and casinos are illegal in the US thanks to president bush. However there are many getting by with it because they are using off shore money processors.

I'm not saying all of these laws are a good thing, quite the contrary, but breaking them surely has consequences that people who choose to participate need to be aware of.

If people don't like the existing laws, they would be better off working as a group to change the laws than to outright break them.

JMO.

Thanks finix for posting that. Looks like the word is out now to those who really do matter. Those who think the long arm of US law cant reach out and get you are foolish. I believed they used words like "classic ponzi scheme" in the report. The US and Canadian authorities are working together at this moment I bet to shut this ponzi down.

Nothing to worry about. It is not even close to the mark. In fact, It only informs people of N. Dakota that it is illegal for them to perform such and such a transaction which is not the case in real but that is another controversy .... anyway, I would not lose an eyewink over that ..... a very irrelevant thing to sweat about.
What I feel deep down, it might be some strings-pulling. As people can see that this program is surfacing again after its prolonged period of trouble and workload, they are only triggering things to minimize their shame on forcefully opposing and giving out dates for its end. I am amazed on the mentality of those people, while the people in program and in authority hesitate to give out dates for any thing to happen, those naysayers publish dates like some witch-professors.

I wonder what will happen when they find out its not a ponzi and that no securities are being sold.

Any investment that pays a specific % is considered a security. It must be registered with the licensing authorities. Anyone who offers these investments must have a license to do so.

Once investigated, if no investment can be proven to be in place, then the program is found to be a Ponzi. At that point, it can't be anything else. The authorities do not accept that a so-called investment is "private".

Ask any financial planner.

Mark

Apparently you're not aware of the definition of "securities" as it applies to US securities law.

The basic foundation for the definition is the "Howey Test" as summarized below.



State and other Federal regulations further define various types of securities and investment contracts, but that's the basic test. You can search for "Howey Test" and "Reves Test" and you'll find more detail.

From the perspective of any US investors involved and US authorities, it doesn't matter that it's based outside the US since investment and insurance products always are regulated at the consumer end regardless what may be the case at the source end. That is, if you want to offer something to US investors, then you have to meet applicable US law and regulatory requirements. Canada, the UK, and most other countries have similar definitions and requirements.

There are some exclusions provided for private and foreign investments but P2P doesn't meet the requirements for classification as such and hasn't done the necessary filings.

Even if by some miracle it is not a ponzi (and for my part I'm 100% certain that it is), they would still be charged with the illegal sales of unregistered securities to US citizens.

It is over no matter what they find out in the end. The North Dakota Securities Commissioner will get the SEC and CSA involved if those are not involved already.

The C&D orders will be issued to the operators, the remaining funds will be frozen, a receiver will be appointed and if something is left over at the end it will be distributed among the investors.

It might even happen that all of the investors will be ordered to return all of the payments they received from p2p back into the pool. Certaily the big promoters will be asked to do just that. You'll see.

But the money people put into their accounts is not actually invested, it just sits there. The investments which bring in money are legitimate.

if i was in everyone boat, i sure wouldnt be referring anyone from this point one.. you be a terrible sponser if you have someone join with all this going on.. be careful people.! best wishes with the site

You're really trying aren't you? lol

Even if true none of those types of little details will get it off on a "technicality." They've seen every conceivable twist at this point and that's why the laws are written as broadly as they are. Go ask the Legisi guys who all had "loans" and not investments and swore that they were free and clear on that basis or any number of others.

You really don't have a clue how the securities laws works and I understand as they are pretty broad and can be quite confusing. The fact of the matter is the second Nick creates a place where people can put "money" even if it's online at any point in time he returns that money to them with a profit, that is in fact a security. It is an investment... plain and simple. I have said all along on this one that the biggest issue was it being illegal and now you are going to see it is.. as someone else said if by some bizzare twist of fate it is NOT found to be a Ponzi and Nick really does have all his mystery investments it will NOT stop this from being shut down as he never registered to offer investments to the public.. as long as he has a website and public access it is to the PUBLIC. Game over on that count.

As to his investments being private, there is NO private when the SEC comes knocking...they have already been in touch with the OSC and RCMP (I promise) and they are in the process now if looking at the data the moles they've had in place found out and are figuring out the best way to shut this guy down..

Read above, IF he really does have investments he has still broken the securities laws..so ponzi or not it's over, but I think you'll find it is indeed a ponzi and NO investments will be found or nowhere near enough to cover the outstanding pending payments that have been requested to this point.

Hope those that lost didn't get hit too hard..