That's NOT what I said, and that's why everyone is tired of reading your ranting posts. You twisted what I said to suit your own selfish needs.

I said reading manosteel's post made me laugh...simple as that...didn't say anything about people losing money or suing anyone was funny.

I suppose you were almost "too honest." Not that I'm complaining; I'd rather read an honest testimony than stare at a stack of fake rainbows.

It's just not that often anymore that I see someone who plays the games and (at the same time) is willing to state the truth about the industry without the sugar-coating. Interesting, for lack of a better description.


Take care,

Great post Charlie. However, I don't agree with you on the prayer thing though.

But anyway, that's what we love about America, right? Freedom of Choice.

Question:

How do you KNOW P2P is a ponzi?

I dont mean "it appears to be one etc..." I would like any or all facts on knowing this, if you don't mind.

Thanks!

B

Just use your common sense. IF Nick is paying the returns he claims then he must be making MORE than the advertised returns---right?
IF he is making these returns it would not take too long for him to control every dollar , Euro etc on the planet.

For those who dont know or have forgotten the "Rule of 72" which calculates how long it will take to double your money based on an earned interest rate---here ya go.

1) Take the YEARLY interest rate you are getting on your investment
2) Divide this number into 72
3) The result is how long it will take to double your investment.

Use this formula and plug in Nicks stated YEARLY interest earned--You will quickly see the absurdity of his claims that this is a real investment

Good luck..

This "rule" is remarkably accurate, as long as the interest rate is less than about twenty percent; at higher rates the error starts to become significant.

2% ~ 3% daily is achievable in the actual investments but is extremely stressful.

There are no facts to support the conjecture, this entire thread is nothing but an ego trip for Pansy Nemesis.

[quote name='Antiscams' date='Jun 26 2008, 06:56 AM' post='4915518']
This "rule" is remarkably accurate, as long as the interest rate is less than about twenty percent; at higher rates the error starts to become significant.

2% ~ 3% daily is achievable in the actual investments but is extremely stressful.
[/quote


I came across something in an old forum which might be helpful to some of the members here:



We answer you questions; I've seen others do the same. The problem is that you DON'T LIKE the answers you are given, so you pretend you didn't receive any answers at all!

Well, that's absolutely fine. You want to know EXACTLY how 12DP makes their money, correct? You want to know what specfic investments they put upgraded funds into each day? Well, I've answered this once; this will be my LAST effort. Here's the answer from the Administrator herself:
----------------------------------------------------------------

Let me make this very clear.

We do not and will not give out specific financial details about our company. This is a private, not a public company, and thus we have no requirement of doing so.

The reason we have taken this step is NOT because we have anything to hide from genuine loyal members.

WHY WE DON'T SHARE MEMBER UPGRADE LEVEL...
because while we were in the process of research and developing this site, we saw several major programs in this industry, who regularly disclose how much money they are taking in, hit my debilitating Denial of service attacks. One so badly that they had to stop paying members and will probably never fully recover. It's simple. Giving away those details will make us sitting ducks for every scammer and hacker out there and then we would all lose.


WHY WE DO NOT DISCLOSE OUR INVESTMENTS...
To be honest, this one is purely for the protecion of our company's income. It's simple proprietary protection. Because we are a success, everyone is already stealing our site content, our program terms, our layout, our graphics, or name, etc. If we gave away exactly how we are making a profit from this, and exactly what we are investing in, then every wannabe admin out there would do the exact same in a heartbeat and our market share would take a dive and/or members would make those same investments themselves and leave us in the dust. Either way, our business would die.

So, the moral of this story is, if you want to keep earning here and want us to survive, just be happy we are paying you when hardly no one else does, be content with the fact that we care about our business and our members and accept that you don't sometimes leaders don't tell people everything for their own protection.

If you don't trust us, please feel free to go elsewhere. But if you want to be here, stop complaning and trying to start trouble on our very own forum.

*****CHARIS*****
(12DP Administrator)
-------------------------------------------------------------

Paid 6/26/08 for 6/2/08 request!

Talk about a blast from the past. Those sure were interesting days.

By the way, for anyone interested...



This is a load of crap; pardon if I'm a bit blunt. This statement was only a cover-up to relieve those who suspected that Charis Johnson was running an illegal ponzi-based business model. The "suspicious" were right.

Once the SEC shut 12DailyPro down and confiscated all assets, they determined that well over 90% of member's profits came from a simple ponzi pool. Less than 10% of investors' money was actually invested, and the vast majority of those mini "investments" were nothing more pooled money into other HYIPs/Autosurfs that were also running a ponzi model. Supposedly, Charis Johnson even admitted the true nature of her program to Admin Brian of TG, and he warned her about the potential legal consequences. However, she insisted that all would be fine; looks like she lost that bet.

12Daily Pro is an excellent program run by an honest administration. Just because payments are few days late does not mean a program is dead. They are just having temporary problems with hackers. Am I allowed to post my referral link here?

Congrats* Mac i made 7 cents on my interest checking what a joke*

LOL ....Are you joking and trying to be funny?

Or are you really unaware that 12DP was shutdown over 2 years ago, January of 2006, and all assets were seized by the SEC? Charis Johnson was charged for money laundering and running an illegal ponzi scheme. The only reason she isn't behind bars now is because she agreed to help the government recover all available funds. The case is still tied up in court, and when all is said and done, she still may be looking at jail time.

And YES- I know this for a fact, because I was a heavy hitter in 12DP back in 2005-06 and very involved in the aftermath.

I think you may be referring to the recent 12DP copy cat. There have been about 5 programs now that have attempted to copy Charis Johnson's original design and payment model. ALL have been ponzis. I don't know what lies the 12DP copy cats have been feeding any of you, but if any of the admins claim to be "Charis Johnson" herself, it's a sack of baloney. Supposedly, the REAL Charis Johnson set up a site to warn people to stay away from these type of programs, but I've never personally seen it.

I don't want to go too far off-topic, so if you want to discuss or read more information about the original 12DailyPro, you can find the MMG thread here:
http://www.moneymakergroup.com/12DailyPro-...amp;start=60495

Finally, no, you are not allowed to post referral links anywhere but your own signature.

I WAS JUST HAVING A LITTLE FUN. Thanks for having enough sense of humour to respond to it. By the way, I am still waiting for the twenty four dollar refund I was promised by the receiver. I dont really blame some people for thinking p2p is a ponzi because they have probably never seen a program that isnt. But insiders know many details about what a unique and wonderful program p2p really is.

Couldn't tell; thanks for clarifying.



Anytime. I even threw in an extra history lesson for free, you lucky people, you...



You may still receive it. I have a downline who received his refund of $550 several months ago. Another individual received an E-mail from Lennon claiming that his refund was on the way.

Best of luck!

Hi Ryz,

When you say refund is on the way how is it on the way??? By US Mail or a payment processor...or is it being put into your Bank Account? Thanks, Gerry

Congrats. But waiting 24 days for a payout...

Is that the current timeframe?

Refund check via US Mail is how the first individual received it.

I think we can quite confidently assume that they won't ever be using a payment processor...not after the StormPay fiasco.

The last email I got from Lennon was May 3rd.

At that time, he said "Due to ongoing security threats,
I have shut down the Investor Web Portal".

But didn't mention anything about starting the refund checks in that email.

So, it's good to hear that people are receiving refunds now.

P-2-P site still down. Anyone know anything about that?

All the information to answer your questions is in the private forum.




My employer only pays me once a month and my bank only pays me once a year. Sounds like your deal is not too bad.

Please post a link to this forum or PM it to me...thank you.

You can access the forum from your back office.

I have been trying to get into the P2P site for two days now, and it has never opened. I see that one of you said that you can get into the private forum through our back office. I have never been able to get into the forum. Could someone give me ideas as to how to get in?
Is the program still live?

Yesterday I did get a message saying something like the site is down for maintenance. However, honestly, things are not looking very good at this time.

Since their apparent bout with the "flu", payouts have been delayed and the forum and site have been mostly inaccessible.

If it's been the real deal all along, then they should have had a backup site and/or forum. You'll also notice that they are not sending updates by email either.

Time will tell.

Mark

QUOTE (backontrack @ Jun 26 2008, 05:31 PM) *
Congrats. But waiting 24 days for a payout...

Is that the current timeframe?



Your bank only pays you once a year? Are you sure?

My bank credits my account with interest once a month.

Is anybody else in here waiting 24 days for a payout?

Mark there is a backup forum. Actually it was the forum before there was a private forum. It starts with an "m". ..I can't post it here since it will just get erased. Also, there is a private chat room. Both of these have been up and running the whole time. You may want to contact the person who invited you into p2p.

Chefboy, I couldn't respond to your pm because I don't have enough posts. Google mcf and pathway 2 prosperity...scroll down and you'll see a site that has a name with these initials in it.....sorry, I believe if I post the actual link it will just get deleted in here. BTW, you'll have to register.

I wouldn't waste your time posting anything in that forum - anything other than "Just be patient - Nick is wonderful - everything will be OK" gets deleted - Kent Black who runs MCF has a lot of his own money in p-2-p and he doesn't want anyone to rock the boat - not that it makes any difference now - p-2-p is dead in the water.

CaptainK, thanks for the reminder. For some reason, I was never able to join that "other" forum because I never received the validation email to any of my email addresses.

In any case, I would tend to agree with PonziNemesis that P2P has most likely gone the way of all other Ponzis. It was obviously well run but eventually they all run out of funds. It's just a matter of time.

Mark

No need to worry. Its My Cash Forum. Im not worried because mmg is not censored. MCF is known as Censored City. Your wasting your time over there are Ponzi Nemesis says. Its pretty much a forum that does not allow any realistic talk about any of the ponzis they promote and the owner is running at least four ponzi programs currently.
That in itself says a lot about what information you will get over there but feel free to visit to find out for yourself.

Things like be patient, it will be ok, Nick is a wonderful human being, and so on are repeated in times of trouble like a broke record when reality says otherwise.

This sure is not looking like a real business to me with the payouts getting later by the day and communication being terrible.

Wondering if other forum names are left up at MCF?

Weird banks in some countries, mine credits interest monthly as well

Hello D* i bet you* the internet will get Bigger

I have been gone from this forum for two weeks. I think it is so funny that I read the same stuff back in March of 2008 that I am reading today! Four months and nothing has changed!

No body can prove the other one wrong!

The moderators allow members to call other members names and that I just do not understand?

Why can't we all get along and quit this fighting!

Don't Worry Be Happy!

It work well today! Teodor

Yes, it's been up for the last 2 days actually. However, the forum is still down for "maintenance". Interpretation: payouts are way behind and we don't want negative posts!

My latest payout request was delayed for 2 days due to the recent down time. These all seem like the typical delay tactics when a program is breathing its last.

They also are not sending out email updates as they have in the past. Let's hope they get their act together soon.

Mark

Looks like a handful of payouts have gone out today for June 3. That makes it 27 days now to get paid which is well outside of terms. Seems like p2p might be breathing its last breath. Communication is very limited yet the website is still up so you can make new deposits. I surely hope no one puts in anymore money at this point. I think the obvious writing is on the wall. Its ironic that Gary is on vacation at this time. Where is the rest of the p2p team?
Lack of communication does not bold well for millionaire Nick.

For the records, this claim really does make us laugh.

If name-calling is going on and everyone fails to properly REPORT the thread, we probably won't see it, and therefore cannot take any action. We don't have the time to read through every single new post every day.

Just a few days ago, there was some name-calling going on in this thread, and I just happened to be sifting through this thread so I could deal with the inappropriate comments. There had been NO report.

Blame the Moderation team if you absolutely must- we're used to that by now- but it certainly won't help the situation, nor change the fact that we try our best to enforce the rules and deal with those who break them. Please help us to help you by reporting all abusers.

Thank you,

Ryz,

I am sorry if I insulted the moderators I was wrong. I did not realize that you could report someone! That is what I will do from now on.

I was a moderator for aonther forum two years ago and I will never do that again! I was being paid too.

My earlier post was for the ones calling each other names.

Better you and than me. Again I am sorry and I will report abuse from now on.

Donnie

Hey Donnie,

No worries. We didn't think you insulted us or called us names; we just wanted to make sure everyone who feels that a rule abuser is running loose knows how to properly inform us.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Not sure what this really proves. The knock on p2p has been slow payouts. And you can read that on the forums out there. But at the same time everyone always gets paid. Per the MCF site, payments were way behind in January as well. Somewhere around 20 days+. This was when the terms were 48 hours. Since then the terms have been changed. Nick has been behind on numerous occasions, only to get caught up. Also, if you read the FAQ the terms are really open ended. It doesn't guarantee that you will have a payout in 10 business days. Currently, p2p is really only over a week of where it has been, which is 10-14 business days.

It proves nothing as you say. However, it strongly suggests that p2p is in trouble money wise. All failing ponzis are predictable in that communication gets poor near the end along with late payouts. It also suggests that p2p is not and never was a legitimate business as so many would like to believe.

I do believe the FAQ states payouts would be made in 5-10 business days not 14. 14 calender days would equal 10 business days in most cases. I aware of the open ended FAQ that Nick left himself and out by saying "if possible."

That does not cut the mustard with an experienced hyip player. Only a foolish person would buy into about 1/5 of what Nick has said in the past. I hope the excuses for this latest delay are good ones because everything points back to not having enough new funds to pay out the old regardless of past history. This seems to be ending in a typical hyip fashion. They all pay good for a while then the bubble bursts at some point.

The way I look at it, it's a gamble. Most investments are. At least the one's that are going to get you money in the near future. I'm no mathematician, but if this is a ponzi wouldn't this have died long ago? The money that's coming in externally can't even be close to what's going out. Through the various forums, I've read in 3 different places that outgoing payouts far exceed external payments coming in. Nick, Gary and one of the Mods have said this. I figure the average person puts $100-$200 in the first month. Payouts have to be in the neighborhood of $50k-$100k+ a day. Then if you throw in the fact that Nick would surely want a couple of million for himself.....just doesn't add up for me. The question of how Nick makes his money and how he keeps on paying out is what makes this intersting and fun. I'm a risk taker, so I don't mind the risk. After doing some DD on some other very lucrative investments across the world (most of which take $$milions to get into to) and just how fast Calvin Ayre became a billionaire (yet he'd be arrested if he stepped on U.S. soil) or Carlos Slim became wealthier than Gates.....anything is possible. That's my 2 cents anyway.

CaptainK, I used to think the same way. It turns out that generally only one person (in this case Nick) knows exactly how much money is in the "pot" at any one point in time. The majority of members compound due to the greed and hope factors. As a result, most of the funds stay in--that is, until there are a number of large withdrawals all due at the same time.

Then the delays occur and the time between payouts gets extended. Think about it: if P2P can pay 60% monthly compounded, then why in the world would they invite us? The hook is they say they are trying to help the "little guy". Sounds great until the program collapses.

At that time, the majority of the newest members will lose everything. Those who had "hope" by compounding then lost the "paper" profit they thought was theirs.

This one has lasted a while because it was well run. But eventually the well runs dry. It's a zero sum game in the end, with the creator taking as much as he can before it dies. A ponzi is a ponzi is a ponzi--if it quacks like a duck....

Mark

I'm new to the game so maybe I'm just oblivious to the reality of HYIP nation. Personally, I think Nick has found a very quick way to accumulate a lot of money through p2p. I mean how many other avenues are there that could get you $5-$10million with little overhead? Not many. I think he's using the p2p money to invest offshore. Personally I think Nick gets the funds together and has several people that actually do the investing. He's just one part of a more safisticated outfit. I don't buy that he's just piggybacking....like you said, why does he need us? But that does sound a lot safer than "I'm investing in developing 3rd world countries." Hard to argue either way as of today it's still paying. Like I said earlier, it's a gamble however you want to slice it. And what if it is a ponzi? Well hopefully for those involved it lasts for a long time. Social Security's still going pretty strong. Well p2p makes for interesteting conversation nevertheless.

Mark, I was under the assumption that you were a member of p2p. If I'm correct, why are you still involved?

It was recommended by a trusted friend who insisted it was the real deal. Now that I believe it is not, I am requesting a full refund.

Personally, I had tried dozens of so-called HYIPs about 2 years ago. Not one of them is around today. There may be 1 in 1000 that is legitimate but I've yet to find it. They all vanish eventually. There was one called Goldenrocks that paid 90% per month (!) and you could compound. Many made a ton but when they died, the majority lost all they had. That's how all Ponzis work.

Again, ask yourself why Nick would go through all of the hassle of moving funds to pay us when he can do it all for himself. It just doesn't make sense.

Good luck.

Mark

I see where you're coming from. At this point, I'm kind of under the mindframe that he needs p2pers to generate the funds to do bigger things. And thus the hassle. There's a **** load of money to be made out there. I think most of us only look at what goes on in the US and maybe Europe. The global market is open for business. There's a lot of potential for incredible wealth in developing countries. Anyway, have you ever thought about online gambling? Betting on sports? With the right handicapper you can hit 65%+ per month (20-10) I dabbled a little bit last year. And I'm thinking about getting back into it. As I've stated I'm a gambler. Do me a favor and keep us informed when you receive that refund. Good talking to you Mark. Good luck to you as well.

Hello there are a few good people in the World still.

Some people love to help people, I feel P2p is very good and will
be around for along time.

You may be right but with payouts lagging further behind and no access to the main forum, P2P should at least be updating members with progress. That's just good business.

Mark

We are being given constant updates in the member's lounge. There is plenty of communication and things are going extremely smoothly, just as admin said they would.