Five....three competitors...and 2 govenment

None of which I can comment on as I am under non-disclosure agreements.

Hope that satisfies your curious nature.....

Oh yeah....I, too, have helped hundreds of people find real legal money making business investments. It sure feels good knowing we're helping others and making the world a better place. Right?

Well aren't you the mature one expecting the "sheep" to have all the answers you'd need to feel good about p2p. It's only logical that one would expect to get the answers straight from the source and only from the source.
Unless.... that is, your intention is not really to get answers but to get half answers and then run down the program in a forum such as this.

By the way, if you're operating in your own dreamland that all governments and all businesses ONLY operate in the most ethical of manners and with ONLY the interests of the masses at heart, that makes you seriously naive and I could only wish you good luck with that philospophy. I know first hand that there are some in positions of authority that would not hesitate to take down programs, organizations and/or people from the inside, outside, or both, if it was in their best interest to do so.

[quote name='prosper8' date='Apr 1 2008, 11:20 AM' post='4789642']
[quote name='cvkint' date='Apr 1 2008, 12:13 PM' post='4789216']
Well I see there's some really funny stuff since I last checked in.. let me bang out a few replies before bed...
Would you? I am curious how many members of the competition or government agencies exactly you've worked for?

Five....three competitors...and 2 goNone of which I can comment on as I am under non-disclosure agreements.

Hope that satisfies your curious nature.....

Oh yeah....I, too, have helped hundreds of people find real legal money making business investments. It sure feels good knowing we're helping others and making the world a better place. Right?

"I have also never told the sheep to get out, only that their arguments are generally pretty lame as they can't seem to come up with legit answers for anything asked directly of them and their old stand by when asked for proof about anything is, yeah well you prove the other side.. oh ok... that's mature.. and logical.."

Well aren't you the mature one expecting the "sheep" to have all the answers you'd need to feel good about p2p. It's only logical that one would expect to get the answers straight from the source and only from the source.
Unless.... that is, your intention is not really to get answers but to get half answers and then run down the program in a forum such as this.

By the way, if you're operating in your own dreamland that all governments and all businesses ONLY operate in the most ethical of manners and with ONLY the interests of the masses at heart, that makes you seriously naive and I could only wish you good luck with that philospophy. I know first hand that there are some in positions of authority that would not hesitate to take down programs, organizations and/or people from the inside, outside, or both, if it was in their best interest to do so.
[/quote)


Well, I see that cvkint is at it again. Mr/Ms "know it all" seems to enjoy TRYING to rain on everyone's parade. First of all-Nick is NOT selling any type of securities. He is running a "retirement club". That is not a security. I'm sure he/she is NOT a member, apparently he/she would rather try to bring down a good, paying enterprise (not possible) instead of making money! Nick has paid every time as he said he would do. The 60% is not unrealistic considering what NICK makes from the club investments. It is just a small portion of his actual earnings.

cvkint needs to get a life.

Virgee2008

One simple reason why Nick would not want anyone to "advertise" P2P is that in doing so, it would violate many individual state laws. Personal "witnesses" of how P2P has been paying are simply that...but to the uneducated, especially outside the HYIP (and before you criticize this, I am aware that Nick does not consider this a HYIP...but considering the return and what HYIP actually stands for (High Yield Investment Program) I can think of anything else to compare it to) arena, one might view it as such, and then put the program in jepardy. Personally, I view this as nothing more than an unsecured loan.....I am loaning the money to Nick to use to invest in his investments, and he in turn pays me the principle plus interest. It doesn't need to be more complicated than that.

As far as the SEC is concerned...just because there are indviduals participating from the US does not mean that the program falls under SEC regulations. It is the sole responsibility of each individual to check the laws in their own governing arena to see if participation is legal. If we fail in doing so...then Nick is not responsible for the consequences...we are. It does not need to be more complicated than that.

Every single thing I have read in this thread is pure speculation. I don't see either side of the arguement providing irrefutable proof that the program is either legal or illegal. As such...the absence of proof does not subsequently prove that either side is correct.

It is certainly NOT in the best interest of the participants of this program to go all gun-ho about advertising anyway. Nick's staff is too small to handle an enormous influx of new members. To desire a huge swarm of new members, is the same thing as trying to sabotage an otherwise paying program. I for one, hope that Nick will close the program to new members for a while in order to iron out all of the details of the payment processor, and debit card.

You are wrong. The SEC just had a major victory against an Ontario based corporation. The OSE acted as an "aid" to the US SEC. The SEC asked for and was given help by the OSE. Reason for SEC involvement: US citizens were participating in an investment that was being fraudulently reported by said Ontario corporation.

The Alexa stats indicate to me that this one is going to collapse very soon now...



...almost certainly by the end of this month. This one is ripe for intervention by the authorities too; I wonder if they'll step in before or after the Ponzi collapses of its own accord?

My advice to anyone with funds in here is to withdraw them before it's too late. I'll be surprised if anyone who "invests", or re-"invests", here now, gets paid. Good luck!

[Edited to improve image]

Sorry to intrude, could you please tell me what OSE is?

Very odd. What's up with the various sharp spikes (up and down) for the month of March?

This looks identical to the post you made at the beginning of last month.

Is this an April Fools joke or something?

as it was you that brought up the line of discussion I appreciate you following it up, but you have far more experience in that venue than I. My total stands at zero.



Yes it does...



Sorry I've spoken to Nick on the phone, totally uneducated about investments and off shore laws and had NO CLUE about a number of regulations and legal issues that he was asked about... if we were actually face to face as he said we were going to be I would have run from the room screaming... he has no answers to give as their aren't any.



Of course the above is true although I don't understand what bearing that has on anything, I must have missed the reference. sorry.




Yes I know about the business registration document that has been circulating but as that is for "online marketing" it has no bearing on the business that Nick is currently operating... when you can show the OSC registration number for the securities he is offering then you'll have something worth talking about.



Good lord make a phone call, both the SEC and OSC will tell you what Nick is doing is selling unregistered securities... that is what they are by definition... two calls how hard can that be to do??



You aren't really going to try to trot out the old "club" thing again are ya? Sorry but IF he was really trying to call this a legal retirement club it would as well be illegal. Unless you have a shareholder agreement in place with less than 100 members and you do NOT allow the general public in, PLUS all members decide on the investments made then you DO NOT meet the legal guidelines for a retirement/investment club... look it up..



Really, so now you know how much Nick actually earns? Oh wait.. right right.. you're just saying that's what Nick said.. so no actual proof, odd how he can never seem to provide any of that..



Wow that's original.. .sorry but my life is just fine, I suggest YOU do some reading and quick....

I don't think so because Ponzi Nemesis is a very experience ppl around here. He knows well but most of HYIP admin don really like him because he's just too godd....hehe

Hope I'm not being too negative

But, but.... you do realize what you just described makes it an investment... loaning someone money for the express purpose of them to return it with a pre-determined ROI is an investment..and as Nick has NOT registered with the SEC or OSC that makes what he is doing hence what you are involved in illegal...



The SEC regulates all things investment related in the US. They determine what does and what does NOT need to be regulated and what is or isn't an investment. Call them I am sure you'll be interested by the answers.



Nobody said anything in this thread was anything other than personal opinions and speculation..but IF YOU took the time to phone a few people at the SEC, OSC and RCMP you would have your proof.. the fact that you don't do that simply means you don't really want to know the answers.. that's fine, it's your call, but the only reason you don't see the proof is because you won't make the phone calls.

Look at this from the other side, the "naysayers" are saying call this number look at this legal info, here and here and here we can show you why this thing is illegal and why it's going down..

But the sheep simply put their hands over their ears and sing "I can't hear you" they can't offer a single shred of proof to the reverse.. where are the phone numbers that the sheep can offer up to prove the legality of what's being done? Where is the contact info to Nick's lawyer to sign an NDA to see proof of everything he claims... there is never anything but "it's paying" oh ok... well that worked out pretty well for CEP, PIPS, 12Dp and tons of others for a while...



You're committed and sincere I'll give you that, but trust me there is never going to be a viable legal debit card and payment processor... again a few quick phone calls to the T&C will tell you once again Nick is full of it... as with all things time will tell...

Hey if this thing is still around in a year and still paying out 60% a month I'll be the first one back here to say "mea culpa" all around, but I have no fear of having to do so....

The real reason Nick does not want to advertise is because he is afraid of attracting attention to himself and his program from those that can do something about it. He is committed to trying to get new members from the internet alone and the amount of time he is spending in the chat room is not for his health. The legality of advertising has nothing to do with anything however the legality of p2p has everything to do with why he does not want this to happen. He is at least that smart and I will give him credit for that.

How you could consider p2p anything but a hyip is beyond me. Call it what ever you want but if it walks like a duck then....... You know the rest.

Imagine waking up and opening up USA Today and seeing a quarter page add with the url and contact info along with a copy of the faq. The real world would have a picnic and a party with this. The authorities would get off their chairs and that would be that. Nick knows this and I would be extremely careful if I were in this program. 60 percent per month cant be obtained and sustained. If it could, ask yourself this? Why does Nick need your money? He could be a multi go zillionaire in just a few short years starting with little of nothing. He is not doing this to help the little guy unless that little guy maybe once was him. Its all really obvious when you put the puzzle together. Be careful everybody.

It seems to me that this is exactly what someone posted about a year ago. Was that you by any chance?

And what proof is that?

Remember that if these regulatory authorities are unable to establish with clear facts a categorization for the business the default reply in all cases is "The entity is selling unregistered securities". Their position is such that they cannot be seen to be anything other than in control.

So, what proof did they provide you with? I hope you're not referring to something verbal or circumstantial.

I love this program. It has been paying and it gives so much hope for a lot of folks.

Lets see whether you are correct or not this time.

Obviously not, why in the world would I be saying that when the program a year ago would have barely been 6 weeks old? Please by all means go search the posts to see... IF this is here paying in one year I will be the first person to admit I was wrong and I have stated that in a number of forums.. I don't believe I am, as you and the others involved don't believe you are wrong.. one of us will be and only time will determine who it is.. I have no issue with admitting when I make a mistake.. just in this case have a hard time believing I have based on the info available.




The proof has been posted many times... do your own work if you case.. if I post it I get blasted by the sheep for posting the same things over and over, but you don't want to do your own work.. that's you issue..

BTW I love your last line.. so verbal proof isn't good enough for you? So if you were going to be involved in a business and you spoke to YOUR lawyer and the POLICE and they both verbally told you the business was illegal that would not be good enough for you? Hmmm you're a tough cookie...

Talk about comparing apples and oranges. You are comparing Minvestment which paid members daily and had a lot more who were active. P2P has 7, 15, 30 and 60 day plans. The 60 day plan has newly been increased to be the most profitable and I know a lot of members have now moved to it including myself. I am logging into my account a lot less now than I used to because of this. Your stats don't take things like that into account.

Can I get referral commission for my brother if he doesn't live in the same household?

Thank you in advance!

Yes you can

Thank you very much scarletrebel

Hi cvkint

I've had a look for the proof but to no avail. If it's that obvious it should be jumping off the screen. And again if you're talking about a phone call or something that's been posted then that's not really proof is it? Sure you're not confusing proof with opinion or protocol, or both.

"...if you were going to be involved in a business and you spoke to YOUR lawyer and the POLICE and they both verbally told you the business was illegal that would not be good enough for you? Hmmm you're a tough cookie..."

It most certainly would not. Most legal representation or persons in authority can only respond from a local or national perspective and are not competent when it comes to international application. Oftentimes it comes down to incorrect interpretation, and all law tends to err on the side of caution. Such agreement is also common because the same national directive is referenced lending itself to a flawed consensus.

So if said parties where to agree and it contradicts my own due diligence I would ask why and investigate further. I would never blindly agree and not think anything more of it. That's not being a tough cookie, that's thinking for myself.

The question does reflect a common stance. I wouldn't have expected it from you though.

payment received thanks #snoopy1000

QUOTE(yellowking @ Sep 22 2007, 06:51 PM)
=$25,000 every month earning a clear profit of $15,000


Ummmm ok I'll bite. Are you honestly saying you believe that you will earn 60% PER MONTH on your 25k? Good lord... there really is one born every minute....

Do you even grasp how completely impossible that is? Do you get that if the so called wizards that are running this scam could really return 60% a month on invested money they would not need websites and referral fees etc....etc..... they would simply compound that 60% a month for a year and be rich.... man the nonsense that people will believe these days.. it just amazes me.


THIS IS THE FIRST POST I COULD FIND BY CVKINT. HE HAS BEEN SAYING THE SAME THING FOR A LONG TIME.

yes I am QUITE sure what proof is.. I guess we will just have to watch this play out won't we...



Your point of view here does confuse me... if YOU live in Mainville USA, your lawyer would know the laws applicable to where YOU live.. just like I live in Ontario and the governing bodies here would be stating the laws for citizens living here, where the investment or company in question is located is not part of the equation if they are doing business with local citizens...

Plus even more important than that, you are still looking at this backwards.. so in your opinion because no PROOF jumps up at you that you feel is good enough, by virtue of that fact that makes some legal?? Hardly a compelling argument to use. Wouldn't you agree?



I never said I blindly followed or that anyone else should either, but starting with one phone call the will tell any US citizen what their SEC thinks of this program should leads that people that care to other phone calls and other agencies etc..etc.. and if you continue on down that road with your investigation you will come to the logical conclusion that all those people cant' be wrong and ONLY Nick is right... there is more than enough factual info out there to those that want to look.. but that is the key right, "wanting" to look.. as I've said to each his own...





Thanks for proving my point.. not sure why it was posted three times, but I guess you had some trouble figuring out all the complicated buttons...

Either way YOUR question was to me did I post the same doubts about this program lasting another year, A year ago... I said no...

You've now posted what you say is my first post, I assume you mean first one in this thread.. and it's dated in Late Sept. 2007, so about six months ago... so in fact it obviously was NOT me claiming this program would fail a year ago...

Thanks I appreciate the effort you put in to prove me right...

So just for you I'll go out on a limb, I don't believe this program will make it to Sept. 22, 2008 a year after my first post.. that should narrow it down a bit more....

As a person who is neutral in this and therefore objective, I'll say this: From reading this thread, I don't see how this program could possibly be legal in Ontario. I'm willing to be convinced otherwise, but the attempts to do this so far have been weak and unconvincing.

I've been fence-sitting on this one, but so far the naysayers' arguments have been much more logical than the cheerleaders' arguments.

Nick has stated that 60% is NOT unrealistic considering the amount of money he is making with OUR money. I berleve that to be fact, considering the diversity of the endeavors in which he is involved.

Some "sour grapes" in here. If they had joined P-2-P they would be making money instead of spouting off about what a bum deal it is. Ho-hum!

virgee

If Nick told you he had a flying saucer in his garage that he bought off of some Martians would you believe him? Get a grip here people. The only way to pay out this kind of money is to take in new and that gravy train may be coming to a stop soon. Why do you think he wants that in house payment processor so bad? So he can shift money around on a screen. As it is now, he better have it to pay out with. With his own processor he can fake it till he makes it. By the way, is he still calling it a bank? That should be interesting.

First point.
Is it not an assumption to state that people in Ontario are local to the investment or company?

Second point.
Yes, I would agree. If that's how I was looking at it.
Thus far I have made no comment as to the legality or otherwise of P2P. I perceived gaps in your logic and wanted to highlight what I consider to be flaws in order to understand better. My stance is proof of legality or proof of illegality, and the abscence of one does not prove the other. I may get neither, as of yet that's the case.

Third point.
I agree in part.
All parties involved could be both right and wrong. It's a relative thing dependent upon location, applicable law and interpretation of law. That's what determines facts and the logical conclusion you mention. What's as good as a death sentence for a business in a US court could be laughed out of an international court.

You will hear government agencies comment or even rule on the illegality of things out with their jurisdiction, things which are perfectly legal at an international level. Truth is they have no power, so to try and increase their hand they set up "partnerships" with their equivalents in other countries. However, even that is not enough IF the entity in question holds no responsibilities to the country crying foul (note: doing business with citizens of that country is not a responsibility of the entity to that country, rather it's a responsibilty of the citizen to their country.)

Wanting to look is not the key if in the end you look in the wrong place. I'm not sure there is a key, life's never that black and white.



I know I'd want to believe him

60% is possible. More, much more, than 60% is possible.
Is it possible for Nick? You don't know the answer to that. And neither do I.

again today!!!!

Thank you Nick!!!

I find this whole lengthy debate very interesting.. Its happening on lots of forums that advertise all kinds of illegal programs. Why is it that this particular one (and perhaps one hand full of others) gets so much of this kind of attention?

Personally I guess I fall under the category of people who like to play the online games knowing that no investment is ever around forever. My philosophy is never invest more then you can afford to loose.. Take no risks, and you won't make any money.

I'm not wanting to enter the debate on this being a hyip, scam, or whatever, but does it really matter at the end of the day?

The fact still remains that lots of people are getting paid. Posting here, on other forums, and people I actually know. So it hasn't fallen over yet and could well be something worth putting some risk into.

Like playing any other program advertised on this forum and many others, "place your bets!" Ride the wave and if you come out on top, good for you! If you loose, don't complain about it. You should know better.

If you play these programs right, you can actually make a substantial amount of money. Of course you will always loose some along the way, but doing it right will average out to making a profit. For me anyways that has been the case.

My two cents worth, I don't really care what Nick and his supporters say, or what the nahsayers say. Non of it really matters. The only thing that matters is "Can I make a profit?" Well gamble and find out!

Hi Tree* Congrats and Congrats Ohio State* Winning the [NIT] Championship

if you are new to P2P you can get your seed money out in 2 months, and the Ultra Ultra carefull way to play it is to put $1000 in the 7 day plan giving you a return of $105, pull out the $1000 put back in the $105 and have fun.

Nice post. These are exactly my feelings too.

Frankly this is the only program where I have made decent profit in the past two years.

If not P2P, I would be investing in some other similar program, as we are addicted to HYIP investing now! Why these guys should have any problems with that I do not understand.

Probably their egos are hurt because P2P did not close when they expected it to. They are waiting like vultures for P2P to collapse.

Till then enjoy the ride..

Let the haters keep hating and stay broke or whatever. Let the men and women that have faith keep getting paid. No one needs to argue that P2P works great because the bottom line is people that dont believe, dont have to sign up, the people that believe or are at least willing to try can see for yourself.

A note to the people that dont believe, who cares.

congratulations tree
i wait my second payment today or tomorrow

Your sums need some re-working Donnie on a 60 day plan you'll get $4,000 and on a 30 day plan $1,500 if one of your referrals max out. You don't get paid if they have a second account only on their first account.




Nice to see one of my old posts being brought up here.

Returns like that are possible this week I have been playing with Forex on the Meta Trader 4 Platform and with my simple system I have made $1,300 in 4 days on a $5,000 account.

I don't see any reason why this wont continue. Maybe you need to look at the bigger picture and not get stuck in that Payslip mindset.

Think of Microsoft over 30 years from nothing to $300 Billion + in value.

Hahahahahahahaha.... yup real traders love to see rookies like you roll in thinking how easy it all is.. that's why there are so many successful long term full time traders right?

Sorry champ if you made that return you were over leveraged.. NO DOUBT.. plus if it's a demo account who cares it's not real money demo trading means nothing...



Dude I've been trading for 11 years, let me know when you make YEAR one as a full time trader...then come talk to me...



Actually Google is more impressive, so are a lot of other companies... if you want to stay here and play money games with the ill informed that's one thing, knock yourself out, but please don't pretend to know anything about actual trading your comments above about the 25% return shows how lacking your in knowledge about the markets...

I am not in a position to decide if P2P is one of "these programs".

Generally speaking the issue with "these programs" is one of illegality and complicity, not to mention the moral debate, of knowingly gaining at the expense of innocent others. If everyone is reading from the same page what you say is fine, if it's a "game" and everyone knows the rules. That's not normally the case though, is it?

There is an argument that suggests you should care about others. I'm not religious, just old-fashioned.

You can laugh if you like - As I say I am testing for a month before i go into it with my own cash. I just wanted to say retrns like that ARE possible. If i've struck on a goldmine only time will tell if not hey ho I'll have fun playing anyway.

Currency trading generally follows strict patterns and as long as you keep your Margins within a tight no of points on a daily basis then you shouldn't go far wrong.

Today for instance i have closed 6 profitable trades with a profit of $690 I have one open showing a loss currently of $270 but i'm going to leave it till it closes itself. I have seen the swings go $1500 against me before returning to a profit state so I'm not in the least bit worried (I think like it IS my own cash for realism).

A whole month? Well that will work out well for you I'm sure...



Ok, as long as you think it's fun I guess that's all that matters.



Oh my... are you serious? Banks, brokerages, massive corporations spend and make BILLIONS a year in FX and you're going to outsmart them are you? No doubt you're using a bucket shop and you're going to have your stops hunted, but you're just another in a long line of people that have no clue what they are doing but end up learning the hard way.. currency does NOT follow strict patterns, if that was the case every person on the planet could see those patterns and make a million...



Oh my where to begin with this nonsense.. first of all PRETENDING it's your money and it really being your money are two different things and there is NOTHING you can do to emulate the emotion of REALLY seeing your money disappear in a trade. You let a trade ride 1500 bucks against your 5k capital base, so greater than 25% yet the standard accepted rule of thumb is not more than 2 to 3% of capital in play per trade..so as you can see you're a diaster waiting to happen. All it takes is for TWO of your trades to NOT come back to profit and you've just wiped out 50% of your account..

Its your money and your life, I've been doing this for 11 years, don't take my word for it, but believe me when I say I've seen guys like you with their get rich quick and trading is easy theories come and then go again time after time during the course of my trading experiences...

I will say it again to anybody not just you. For all the people that keep claiming that greater than 60% returns are possible month after month you are living in a dreamworld.. I'm not talking about you heard from a friend of a friend but real legit audited companies... show me ONE.. just ONE.... that would be impressive... hoping for something and wanting something is NOT the same as it being real.

Of course your right cvkint. Think about the millions and billions of dollars someone like Exxon Mobile has. Im pretty sure they have a tad more resources than Nick. Dont you think their corporate finance officers would know about such secret investments if they existed? Of course they would. If these things existed then they really would have no reason to continue to sell oil because even though they make great money doing it their returns on investment are not 60 percent in a year!!!!!

Exxon Mobile operates legally by the way. Its not hard to figure p2p out with just a little bit of thought. Many of you know this is just a game and thats fine. Those that dont may find out the hard way. Oh, I hear Nick is going to be out for 2 weeks soon setting up his bank.
I can only wonder what type of communication problems he will have on his trip. Its hard to blame the snow that far south.

I suppose it depends on what you mean by "month after month", nothing lasts forever after all. If you're talking decades I'd have to say there's a fair chance you'd be correct. For just a few years though an averaged 60% and more per month is quite possible.





I think you'll find it doesn't quite work like that. There are limitations and nothing is without risk. Such organisations don't simply place 3 billion at the beginning of a month and withdraw it plus 60% at the end of the month.

Good grief!I was invited to join,and was seriously considering it.This is soooo reminding me of another thread,where all I see is debating-legal-not legal?Ponzi or No?Etc.etc.Is anyone happy here????

Which thread?

Hey I think its a good education. I got some really good meaty stuff in the last few posts.
Thank you guys.
Debate is healthy and you can learn a lot.
as always Im eargertolearn

Well, it is simple, if you are concerned or have worries, then dont join, the choice is ultimately up to you.

Layton

Of course returns like that are possible. They happen all the time. There is no way that rich people are as rich as they are if it wasn't possible.

Hell the return on a lotto ticket is higher then most investments.. Playing HYIPs or whatever you like to call it, is no different then gambling in a casino. Almost everyone here knows the risks and everyone chooses to play or not to play.

Casinos are probably the biggest scam around.. Everyone knows that the odds are against the players.. Yet no one makes a real fuss about that.. Because no one cares. Players know the risks and choose to play.

p2p is no different. Most people will know the risks. Some choose to play, some don't.. Its all good.

If it falls over, you won't here me whining about it. I just move on to find something else to invest in and try to make a profit with..

Good gamblers know how to play the tables to come out in front. Good HYIP players are no different. They learn how to play and usually can come out in front

Hey Dude* You must drink Bud Light