Blow The "Scam" Objection Out Of The Water

Do you keep getting the objection,
"Its a scam because only a few people at the top who get in at the beginning
are making most of the money off the people who come in later."

If you say it, it can be argued, if the prospect says it, IT MUST BE TRUE.

If I don't know enough about the person, so I'll explain the "all the money is made at the top" objection compared to the stock market and the real estate market - but will make sure I explain everything in detail just in case they don't know about either industry. Here's my explanation:

Let's say you bought a stock for $1.00 ten years ago. Today it's worth $20. Are you making more money because you got in at the beginning? Yes you are. Every person who buys the stock after you is driving the share price up; this is actually THE ONLY WAY YOU MAKE A PROFIT.

When you do sell your shares of stock - who are you selling them to? You're selling them to someone who is going to pay more for it than you paid. You got in early and are making money off the people who come in later.

Let's say you bought a beach front house 20 years ago for $100,000 and that it's worth $5,000,000 today. Are you making more money because you got in at the beginning? Yes you are. Every person who bought real estate in that area after you did drove up the cost of your property.

When you sell your real estate, who do you sell it to? Someone who comes in later. So the profit you make is from people who come in later.

The truth is - in real estate and the stock market people who get in earlier do make more money because they got in at the beginning (if the stock and real estate market go up of course).

Also true is - in Ponzi's, Pyramids, MLM & Big Business. people who get in earlier can (notice the difference between "can" and "do" from previous paragraph) make more money.

There are many people who come into Ponzi's, Pyramids, MLM & Big Businesses who make more money than the people before or above them. This is the case in the world over. In MLM There are many people in downlines who make more money than uplines.

So, to directly answer your question - every business in the world operates as this objection states...except Ponzi's, Pyramids & MLM ! For an investment to be an investment, requires that someone has to come along later and pay more for it; otherwise it's not an investment.

When a person buys a pair of shoes, they're buying them from someone who got in earlier - therefore making the people who own the shoe company rich!

A person who buys a painting is buying it from someone who bought the painting earlier - therefore making them rich!

When you go to work for someone, you're going to work for someone who got in earlier and they're getting rich off of you!

Isn't it odd that the entire business world operates under the principle of getting in early and making money off the people who come in later...yet Ponzi's, Pyramids & the MLM industry is often shunned for it! Yet, people in Ponzi's, Pyramids & MLM's can point to thousands of people who make more money than the people who brought them into the business.

Ponzi's, Pyramids & MLM's..when done right and ethically is the about the fairest business on the planet - build your business with enthusiasm!!

If early investors were paid off with money from new investors
but there is no real investment going, than it can succeed only
in one condition: that the amount of new investors is ever growing.

Exactally and if you think carefully about that,
that is how everything works.

Yes?

No, because as it looks now here, it reminds me a musical chairs game.

When chairs are plenty, everyone is having fun.

Yet as the music winds down, we know that eventually only one person will be able to sit.

A good business add more chairs than players.

Not one project at MMG do it.

My HYIP will do it.

Why?

Because in the first 10 years I will add the same amount of back up money
to the amounts the players put in. The same way done when you bought a stock
for $1.00 ten years ago. and today it's worth $20.

It's not worth $20 now only because you were an early bird. there was a back-up to your
one dollar investment.

Like I said in another thread, you would be better served starting a thread specific to your
pending HYIP.

magnaplex
v
megaplex

pending HYIP? pending is Awaiting conclusion or confirmation.
My HYIP is instant.
I simply explain to you why you are wrong when you compare ponzi
to legit stock market.

Your HYIP isnt operational yet is it?

But you have announced your intention to run a HYIP.

To me its pending until its running.

My point it in the stock market nobody makes money unless they get in before
a buyer who gets in later and pays a higher price.

Not true.
In most cases the one who gets early to buy the stock is losing all his/her money.


Here's another difference.
In any legit market all stats are accurate
here you see numbers like this:
(current case swiftearning.com)
Total deposited $ 177,717.32
Total withdraw $ 123,657.52
I investigate it enough to know that more than half of the withdraw
is true, but more than half of the deposited are fake.

you see, those thieves try to cheat members but they cheat themselves.

You missed my point, I am not talking about about scamming and thieving admins.

kindly explain yourself again

WOW! This is the first time I find someone who understand the thematic for Pyramids & MLM well.

Unlike invesment programs where one must invest sometimes very large amounts of money before to earn, MLM (with real products) are performance based programs that usually require a small participation fee plus a large investment of time and work before to earn big income.

When the payplan is well structured and based on products selling including sales made to non-participants, late members joining at the bottom of the Pyramid and are performing can earn commissions thousands time larger than the ones received by those at the top who are earning from recruiting alone.

Investment / HYIPs =>> Join early + Large Spends + zero work = Nice Profit

MLM with Real Products =>> Join at anytime + Small Spends + some work = Large Residual Income

Monee .....

Can you stop spamming every thread with cr@p about somethingg you havent done yet please.
I was going to respond to the OP about why they're wrong, but your constant drivel has blown that

I think you are reading me wrong anyway.

Do you think I am having shots at you then there is a mix up.

What do you want me to explain again.?



I think there maybe a language barrier or a mind brain barrier that is getting GPT offside with many MMG members. At least I hope thats what it could be.

moolahplux
v
megaplex

Great posts Mega and Monee,

Both posts are worth referencing in the future.

I sometimes wonder if playas ever really know or think of where the money comes from, to playout an hyip or surf.

Pete

It comes from e-gold, just like ATM's print money while you wait.

I never believed in HYIP's. Here's why, its real simple. There is no product. The government can shut it down anytime and go after anybody who is involved. They are just ponzies, nothing more. You all know that 99% shut down within 3-6 months leaving the last ones in with nothing but bad memories. You are really wasting your valuable time with any HYIP that promises any return of more than 2% a day. You might get nailed on the taxes you did not pay on your so called "earnings" on the HYIP. If you are lucky enough to make $5K or $10K( and it's all luck, there is no skill involved so you are not learning anything that can help you later in a real bonafide MLM or real business), are you going to declare it or try to evade paying the tax?? Its your call and you are responsible for paying taxes on income no matter how you made it. Don't take the chance that your government is going to miss out on collecting the tax. We are living in a different world today !! Be forewarned !!

MLM's are much better if you are lucky enough to find the right ones and the right sponsor ( usually the biggest problem)

That is what I am doing this month .... going to find the best Multi Level Marketing Business. And it will be legal with a real product. I have many contacts who are fed up with not making any money and they are about ready to give up the quest for financial independence but I wont because I believed in the concept from day 1 .

In fact I will create my own if necessary with the right partners ( way down the road )

Residual income from a solid legitimate company is the only answer.

Not a quick buck from a questionable HYIP. Rememember 12 daily pro and the pay processors ?? Dont ever forget that things can go bad real fast . Think about E-gold and how they dominate the market? What would happen if the US government stepped in and shut them down? Be prepared for it someday. Dont leave large amounts of money in any online pay processor nowadays !!

Another WOW! I never met a guy that much pissed off by these stupid HYIPs! (I am sounding a bit silly now huh? )

However, read my first post between the lines and click on the banner in my Signature and you will understand I am on the same page as you concerning MLM.

Tell your contacts to not give up. New MLM programs with smarter concept and real sellable products are being created and the FTC is now giving more validity (thanks to Amway's fight) to this Industry.

I wish HYIPs players and newbies could comprehend even 10% of the points you made above.

Monee .....

PeaceLily's definitions:-

Hyips/AS=>> Join, preferably not too late + 100% capital at risk(stranger controls ur money) + Little work [Be a HAR ]= Profits if u get thru'

Investing in stocks=>> Find undervalued stock(no need to join early) + some spends(using leverage) + some work= Nice gains

Trading the markets( e.g going long) =>> Find oversold instrument(joining later won't make one iota of difference) +some spends (leverage or derivatives) + some work + discipline= Splendid income

Real estate=>> There is never the right time to get in-just do it . There r always bargains, just a matter of where to look + reasonable spends + some work( if u r gonna do some rehabbing)= Excellent capital gain

MLM with Real Products =>> Join at anytime + Small Spends + hard work = Large Residual Income

MlM's have never been a big thing in Australia, there seems to be some objection to it in the broader field.

We also have issues with goods and service tax, which amount to 10% paid by the seller, passed on to the consumer, then the 10% is reclaimed by the seller.

This is a bloody mess, and I am almost certain that surfs fall under the same tax laws, as they sell a product.
These of course only apply to Australian owned programs.

The potential for drama with the Australian tax office over these issues is not a healthy thing.

Pete

This comes from an orrible forum called ..

Thanks for nothing catty. but thanks anyway.

PIMP your MLM & HYIP

I dont like this information below but it did
make me think about it a lot and I am still thinking about it.

MLM Pimps
The nicest people, I hope you never meet!

Pimp:
One who finds customers for a prostitute; a procurer.

MLM pimp:
One who finds customers for a MLM company; a procurer.

An MLM Pimp can make a fool of you... repeatedly. They are some of the nicest, most charismatic people that you will ever meet. You may find you are drawn to them and the 'community' type atmosphere they promote. Whether or not you let yourself admit it...the main reason you are drawn to these people is because they are telling you something that you WANT to believe; "You can earn money online".

They work hard to present you with just the right 'opportunities'...they offer you help to build your downlines, and they show you how to promote successfully. Why wouldn't they? YOU are their downline! YOU are the reason they earn in almost any MLM/SCAM/ONLINE FANTASY they join. They lead...you follow...from one failed opportunity to the next. Some in the community will earn in some of the 'opportunities' presented, but most will lose. Not only will they lose their own money, but they will drag other people in also.

While earning your trust, MLM Pimps warn you that you could lose money. They paint a picture of success that is only attained by a few, and make you believe you will be one of the people who earns...if you just get in at the right time...get others to believe they will succeed...and put your money in. They are carrying around a ready made downline...their own flock of sheep, waiting to be fleeced. They will always be on top of the heap. They never have to put in much money, but they flaunt big earnings. The money is from their huge, ready made, downline...YOU. Well, not just you...they also earn from the people who YOU get to join.

Pimping for MLM sponsors and companies.




Its why have i have searched high and low for programs digital and downloadable products.

Recently a company FFI with a Fuel Pill came to Australia.
Not only is the shipping and handling charges outrageous
but 3 or more weeks to get product and they havent handled the GST tax yet.

A bloody shambles in the making is right.

More like road kill.

goverment should really legalise ponzis.. but if they do then you would get ponzi schemes popping up everywhere offline as well.

perhaps legalise them on the condition they announce everywhere they are a ponzi

Why not they have legalized most other money sucking deals.

Quite interesting reading ....Here's my 2 cents

Hyips & AS are a nice thing as long as they are paying. Problem is "investors" get used to making 144% in 12 days,
while in the real world, 10% a year is considered a good investment. Problem is, there's no way to sustain such a
high profit for more than a year, unless you get millions of people to join, and it will still end and only more people
will be traumaticed by their losses.

Solution, all people should play hyips and AS as they treat any moneygame, only spend what they can afford to loose.
OLD NEWS you might say, but if everyone just folllowed that one simple rule, problem solved.

STOCKMARKET, here many people get rich but as always, many more loose even more. Problem, investors who are
buying the stocks in a company, expects an ever increasing profit, just like the hyip & AS players. The result is low
wages for the workers, massive layoffs and explotation of people in poor countries who have become the modern
world slaves. We have all heard the stories of Nike factories where people are getting paid a few dollars a month to
produce shoes that are sold for 100's of dollars. The cost of production might be less than a dollar so the profit
is in the equivalent to selling drugs. So why not just pay the workers enough to make a decent living, which would
still be peanuts in the countries where the shoes are produced? Because of the demand for ever increasing profits.

Solution could be to give a certain amount of stocks to the workers in the company. Any outside investors will only
make a certain amount of profit for each stock and then that stock will be cancelled and new ones will have to be
bought in order to make more profit.

What i hope for in regards to hyips & AS is that they will be treated as moneygames where alot of people spend
small amounts, like playing lotto but with more winners.

I hope that 2007 will bring more realisistic profit expectations from hyip & AS players, and the move from
moneygames to pooling of funds for real world businesses. Lets say i have a great idea to make a lot of money
by selling a unique product i have found, but i dont have the funds to start it off on my own. I get a bunch of
investors who loan me money in return for profit. This could be really interesting, while profit being lower but
realistic compared to moneygames, the potential would virtually be limitless. THink about the hyips & AS that
have raised millions of dollars. That means that if you can come up with a business plan that allows a quick return
on the money from investors, you could quickly raise millions of dollars and become a big player with a large
company.

All profit is shared between investors and staff of the company. The workers receive a nice income, while investors
receive a stable and lucrative ROI, lets say 25% every 3 months. Offcourse this is easy to think about and make it
sound reasonable, but anyone with some knowledge about starting a company knows that it would be hard to pull
off. Im currently thinking about a concept but i still need to work out all the details, but it sure would be interesting
to see if it could be done.

And i would love to see people making consistent profit instead of the rollercoaser profits of hyips & AS.

Monee, I am planning on joining BAC from your link in a few weeks for sure. I took a good look at it last night and because the program helps people in need all over the world ( many who have little or no hope for a better life ). I have 15 years of MLM experience in 15 companies and know how to talk to people about building a residual income for $30. or $179. a month ( see the site for more info ) People who join up with me will be part of a pro-active team with a goal of joining more programs to create multiple steams of income.

I am not pissed off at the HYIP programs, just the people who think that by offering massive returns they will attract the ones who seek to make as much as they can before the new money runs out and the HYIP has to close. While not all who start HYIP's are scammers, there always seems to be cash-flow problem at the end. At the same time I might add that many are started by the same scammers who are intentionally planning to run away with the cash when the time is right.

It bothers me when good honest inexperienced people are taken advantage of in the name of profit.

MLM's are the way to real financial independence, not working for somebody else and getting paid x number of dollars for one hour's work. MLM's are real businesses that are exciting to be in with many positive people all working together as one big team to achieve mutual success.

I could go on and on but like you say there are new ones being created right now that will have better management and comp plans - the 2 things that determince whether or not the MLM will fail the new sign-up or make it possible for that person ( who could be a single mom or a senior citizen or just someone who hates going to work every day ) to actually earn an ever-increasing monthly income with no more out-of-pocket expenses than an affordable fixed amount per month.

If you are reading this now and are fed up with the HYIP grind, then by all means give MLM a chance but before you jump in to any particular one, PM Monee or myself and we will work with you for mutual success.

Real estate and stocks are great too if you have the time and money to invest and have lottsa luck on your side !!

Above all, real success requires real committment bu the rewards are worth it.

Yep, MLM is the way to go for those seeking a serious home based business generating monthly residual income for them, especially now that the Authorities reconize MLM. The earning can be very huge, because you are not working alone, you are profiting from the work of thousands of your fellow members.

Also solutions are been find to help the members joining late and are located at the bottom of matrices with a "zero downline" and zero income. This will prevent the matrices to collapse and it would no longer matter if you join on launch day or 6 months down the road.

For a HYIP to be successful and last for long, 2 imporant parameters are required:

1 - A reasonable ROI between 5% to 15% (maximum 20%) per month.

2 - The owner must create different sources of income to support the ROI.

But as we know, the players here are not interested by low ROIs. They are more attracted to illegal Ponzi offering high ROIs such as 2% paid hourly or 25% to 100% paid daily.

Most MLM's suck. The last one I was involved in sucked me dry of money, but I did end up with a year's supply of soap in the end

lol, i have a 2-year supply of green tea from an MLM i joined a year ago which i paid dearly
and i have no choice but to drink it all up till the end of this year!

I bet you were involved in those MLM programs that tell you "No recruiting and No selling" and have not plan any solution to help you get and keep a downline and an income, but use you to fill the matrices for the "Big Dogs" at the top! In this case, yes, they suck!

As time goes, you will hear about MLM that put your interest before their own and secure you an income no matter when and where you join the program. Stay tuned ....

I agree ...Most MLM's are nothing more than moneygames like hyip's and autosurfs. Thats why you need to do thorough
research before choosing the company to join. They are out there, but hard to find due to all the crap that comes along everyday ..

So true!

There are so much craps and fake MLM hyping people that the real ones are hard to spot.

I did join a few in the past but all did not work out for me. Kind of sad so now started my own with my existing biz, althought itis not a big program, at least I am happy it is growing slowly.

I cant get the idea out of my mind that most MLM distributors are just pimping for the company and uplines.

I did mention earlier that MLM's do not sit well with Aussies, Tax problems are a major concern(G.S.T).

But, let me give you an example of why MLM's are frowned upon here.

Thirty five years ago, a friend of mine had an older brother, a pilot, with T.A.A. (now Qantas), now this guy worked with a fellow pilot who had joined an MLM, called Golden products, this guy, Stewart got in on the bottom floor, and ran meetings, so large that they booked out town halls to accomodate crowds.

Stewart, was a general distributor day one, every meeting had financiers at their little desks, ready to sign people up for enough money to get in to this get rich quick plan, and, sign them up they did.

Thirty something years later I would guarantee most of these people are still working their way through their own personal warehouse full of overpriced soap powder. Ethically these guys were alley cats, there was never any defined territories, nor were there any products sold that were greatly different from generic brand household products.

As a race, it seems we are allergic to MLMs.

Stewart, all around good guy, got rich, many of his victims really never got over the loss, both financially, and in broken spirit. You see all Stewart did, was take advantage of friends, family, their friends and family Ad Nauseum.

In the U.S. Mlms may work, here in Australia, I would be picking buckshot out of my ass.

Pete

Pete, I agree with you on this.

Group Leaders and the so-called “Heavy Hitters� keep lying to their members/followers and prospects, making them believe their recruiting success can be duplicated and all they have to do is to keep trying and never quit. Yeah, right, never quit paying their membership fees which in fact are feeding the bank accounts of those sitting at the top of the matrix.

Most of the time, the program does not even have a good and sellable product to begin with. These Group Leaders and “Heavy Hitters� know very well that as the matrix grows exponentially with the bottom levels becoming wider and wider, new members signing up late have less to zero chance to successfully build their own downlines in order to secure an income for them. Yet they lie to their prospects, hype them and get them into their downline anyway. Then their downline members struggling on the bottom levels of their matrix without a downline and commission drop out while swearing to never join another MLM program again. These greedy Group Leaders and “Heavy Hitters� do not care about anyone but themselves. Once a program closes down, they simply move to the next new MLM/Matrix program and repeat their abuse and crime. They make me so mad!

HYIPs are way too risky and one cannot count on Autosurf programs to make a living online. What else do we have? Affiliate programs with Commission Junction, LinkShare, Performincs, etc.? Adsense with Google? Performance based Affiliate programs with ClickBank? Can you count on a steady monthly income and feed your family with these programs?

I do not think so, MLM programs are still the best programs structured to reduce your load of work and allow you to build an organization and create a residual income with a little financial investment. And when they offer some real products sellable to non-participants then they are legal and recognized by the Authorities in a majority of Countries, including in the USA. The bottom line now is to prevent your organization to shrink and your residual income to dry up!

It would be nice to find MLM programs that anyone can join at anytime (even fall on the bottom levels) and still be able to build and keep a downline with the residual income that comes with it. It would be great if the late members located on the wide bottom of your matrix do not drop out, causing the whole structure to collapse! Yes, it would be fantastic if all participants in a MLM program could be guaranteed an income no matter when they join and where they are located. My team and I have created some solutions to resolve the “zero downline / zero income� problems in MLM programs. I will not discuss it here to avoid spamming. But, if we want to keep making money from home and online, I think we should try to improve programs that are legal, promising and less risky.

Monee .....

Hi Pete,

A few comments to your good post here. First, if you get hung up up on the negative aspects of MLM in your country, you are shooting yourself in the (blank). Stewart is but one person who started out with good intentions and found out later he was in an MLM that did not have a good pay plan or training program in place. His recruits did not get the proper training and it sounds like it was not on the Internet.
I am here to encourage you to look into building a solid residual income by way of a well thought out and well managed MLM opportunity. I was actively involved in 15 MLM's offline from 1978 to 1998. I did not make any real money in any of them, some were good companies with useless pay plans and some were fly-by-night deals that made some people a lot of money and then disappeared.
But I was learning all the time just what seemed to work and what did not work for the people. Binary plans do not work. Stairstep breakaways do not work. 5x whatever levels do not work as there is never any spillover.
Let's say you did join an MLM type program that uses a 2 x 10 matrix. This is the best matrix by far for the average networker since the 3rd person sponsored by each person is placed below one of the 2 directly under you somewhere in the matrix but always they are in your own downline.
Also you should not have to be qualified with 2 people sponsored to recieve your 1st commissions. That issue alone results in more dropouts than anything else. You can see how the admins will use that to their advantage since they can hype the crap out of a program ( BIZBUZZ, Countryclub for example,, there you needed 3 just to qualify to get your first dollar back... and so they failed the people but make a lot for themselves I think )

So there are a few pointers and remember you can recruit using the Net which is tailor made for MLM. As well, you can join and your sponsor will give you your 2 people so now you are 100% qualified without having to find anybody yourself. Many people cannot recruit, what they want is to be a passive "investor" and just pay the monthly fee and make a profit. Well, that is why we are in it . right? For the profit, like any other business.

I paid my dues years ago and now I am into building a large income by getting into a number of well managed MLM's and picking up a monthly cheque from maybe 5 -10 different sources. If it takes a year to get to the point where I am making 5K amonth , that is far better that going to work every day and its too boring anyway. And if Iam late 2 times in aweek, maybe I am fired and replaced !!

I like my independence and I like to think I can make 10K-20K a month in a few years working from home. I will recruit offline too as I live close to Vancouver and its full of people who cant afford the cost of a home anymore due to the real estate prices now. WE still have a good sized mortgage to pay off and we are not getting any younger, my wife and I.

Our MLM/Affiliate programs are also structured to enroll parents and families from poor countries as Affiliates and help them build their downline and earn $200/mo to $300/mo. I suppose everyone here already knows that the average monthly salaries in most of these countries are between $50/mo and $100/mo. Our $300/mo support can feed a whole village in many African Countries and we could not achieve this with HYIPs and Autosurf programs. On the contrary, we lost a lot of good money in HYIPs and Autosurf programs last year. so now we are focused on running our own MLM/Affiliate programs and sometimes we join other ones that are legit, well structured and offering real sellable products.

Please, PM me a list with the other MLM programs you have joined. Have you built a downline in these programs? Were you hosting Conference Calls for your group? What do you think about MLM programs offering products that the general public cannot use?

Monee .....