All about 12DP members from scampay. How about e-gold/EMO members. I think there no chance to get any refund for e-gold/EMO members. SEC is lazy enough to look the database and refund all of them (IF they really do a refund)

Yeah I think the SEC doesn't care about international members and they will only refund US victims

After I got paid to my Stormpay account for an egold upgrade at 12DP, I reupgraded all that money in 12DP, now I can't get my money back using chargeback because it didn't come from my credit card

Try again. The person who got your letter obviously didn't do much research but just pulled up the SP website - probably some temp doing the daily grind. Try again and you might get someone more sympathetic.
As I don't know about your exact situation I couldn't say what your likelihood of getting the money back is. For instance, how long before SP froze the accounts did you make the CC transaction. If SP can argue that they gave 12dp, and any other sites, the money well before they froze the accounts then they can pass the buck onto 12dp easily. If, like me, I had just made the payment from my CC to SP and then transferred it to 12dp and AT and then the next day SP froze the accounts, I'd say (hope!) you have a greater claim on initiating a charge-back.

Again, good luck, and keep us posted as to what happens.

I'm sorry I haven't been checking this thread in so long. Can someone please tell me is 12dp coming back or what? Is there new site up or what? Anyone answer me thanks

Yeah I think the SEC doesn't care about international members and they will only refund US victims

After I got paid to my Stormpay account for an egold upgrade at 12DP, I reupgraded all that money in 12DP, now I can't get my money back using chargeback because it didn't come from my credit card

Yes, 12dp will be back in full force. They told the SEC and FBI to go shove the investigations up their a$$es
They are going to pay all their pending withdrawals and it will only take 12 hours, since they are 12 daily pros.

And if you upgraded after March 5th, which is the unofficial relaunch date, they will give you 100% of your upgrades daily, whcih is an astonishing 1200% return of your initial investment. Ain't that some *?

Also, in the latest news from abc4 12dp also bought out Scumpay and made them their own payment processor, and Charis made Girsky her b1tch and fired Brett Bumsucker for spreading lies about her.

Can't believe you've missed out on all these exciting developments.

Dont feel bad. Even US members wont see a dime if the SEC has anything to say about it. The govermental agencies in the US want to be the only one allowed to rip off citizens.

It seems the 12DP site and forum is currently down.

Autosurfs are not illegal. Using payment processors governed by the laws of the USA is a problem.

err.. from charis ....
We have learned that the 12dp site, currently under SEC control, is currently unavailable. From what we understand this is a temporary situation that I sincerely hope and believe they will correct within the next day or so. We have made sure they understand how vital we believe it is for you to have continued access to your accounts. Rest assured your account information is safe in their hands and it will remain in tact for your continued reference. Please be patient during this time and allow them to do their jobs. They will communicate with you soon. Please share this information with other members that you know.

Still here and still caring about all of you, despite restrictions. Charis

It seems the 12DP site and forum is currently down.

How do you perform a chargeback?

Paid with debit card through SP.

How long from payment do you have to do it?

Thanks

Can't say that it really means that much to me whether the site's online now, the accounts are worthless and that information is obsolete.

Just noticed this thread has been moved to closed section

so bye-bye to our money?

As a Danish resident, I am concerned that refunds (if any) will be aimed at US cittizens and not the rest of the globe. I have no evidence or facts to back this up, it is just a feeling. As I discovered and started upgrading in the AS and HYIP world around end of November, I started smallwith one or two then kept ploughing back 'profits'. I subsequently joined more, and put more money/profits in. Never more in one place than I could afford to lose and blah Blah BLAH!!

However, the bottom line for me is about $15,000 (although that's a guess it could be more or less) Any money deposited to and profits generated from AS is all in the SP/AS system.

So I think I had better prepare to wave goodbye to it all.

My God, my timing in this industry has been sooooooooooooo bad. And I am soooooooooo f**ked.

So it looks like I could be back to selling matches on street corners.

Next time I will remember the expression: 'If something looks too good to be true, then it probably is'

Not that there will be a next time.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The post about Charis making Girsky her ***** etc made me laugh out loud - for the first time in days - so thanks to whoever posted that!

Ah, flois40 - good morning!

I am having a dismal day. How about you?

Except that the government was not already there. The government agencies only get involved after there are hundreds of complaints from people who lost money. Even when the first broadcast came out of Utah, they stated that were no complaints from any 12dailypro members. No one was investigating 12dailypro until Barry Minkow decided to go after them. So who asked Barry Minkow to go after them?

Do you know that when the BBB reports first started coming out they said we have received over 80,000 complaints about stormpay and twelve about 12dailypro.

And yet all the attention is focused on closing down 12dailypro.

Members on talkgold posted that they notified agencies and got the investigations going. One member said that he contacted Barry and asked him to get involved. They claim that they did this a few months ago and was glad that he got involved.

I dont know if this is posted yet so..

http://money.cnn.com/2006/02/27/news/compa...osurf/index.htm

Stupid lies. It's the government trying to get rich at the expense of it's citizens. I was not deceived or defrauded. They use the stupidest words. Why don't they go after jerks like the admin of GCI surf and clixsurf and Rainsurf? thos were the real ponzi scammers. No, instead they go after the honest and legitimate ones. I hope Charis beats their butts in court! I hope lots of 12DP members provide statements. I will if asked.

Stupid lies. It's the government trying to get rich at the expense of it's citizens. I was not deceived or defrauded. They use the stupidest words. Why don't they go after jerks like the admin of GCI surf and clixsurf and Rainsurf? thos were the real ponzi scammers. No, instead they go after the honest and legitimate ones. I hope Charis beats their butts in court! I hope lots of 12DP members provide statements. I will if asked.

believe me , every HYIP will be die in a day, no one can live forever

sorry, surf , every surfs or hyips are Ponzi

I used to read some of the posts from some of those talkgold threads.
I stopped going there because the people starting some of those
threads are as scummy as the ScamPay people. They had some kind
of vendetta against 12DP....probably because they were caught cheating.
And yes, I would not be surprised if they had a hand in getting the
SEC involved.

But in doing so, they may have burned the rest of the industry too.... IDIOTS!

No harm in trying to do a chargeback. Whether it works or not is a different story. In the SEC release it says that by order of the court you should not attempt to chargeback any money from 12dp, but you may have a claim to chargeback from SP, which is not mentioned in the court order. In particular, my chargeback will be initiated against Stormpay as they have acted fraudulently, at least this is the way I have presented it to my credit card company - whether they will go for it I don't know.

Yes I got the same message today from SP, My question is why didn't the message

come from the SEC to me?

believe me , every HYIP will be die in a day, no one can live forever

sorry, surf , every surfs or hyips are Ponzi

Interesting. When an admin running a ponzi scams, CALL THE GOVERNMENT! When an admin running a ponzi is paying: DON'T CALL THE GOVERNMENT!

Government doesn't operate that way. Once you invite/demand/allow them to be in charge, they don't differentiate between whether Ponzi A is good Ponzi or if Ponzi B is bad ponzi.

Tis far better to not have the govt involved at all and take your chances with scammers than having the govt as a referee.

NUK

I read the Consent Order in the SEC case and I am trying to find exactly what the downside is for Charis/ 12dp. Sure 12dp can't comeback but that was prevented as soon as the Feds became involved anyway. There's a bunch of stuff that says that Charis can't run any schemes to defraud investors, which I guess is the SEC's way of saying don't run a program like this again, which if you were Charis and got smoked for being the honest admin, why in the world would you set yourself up for the trouble again anyway. Lets see, a receiver to handle the accounts of 12dp, from SP, EMO, Egold & bank account. Well SP wasn't turning the account control over to 12dp anyway so that could be a good thing. I would like to see the dimrods at SP refuse to let the receiver handle the account. Rumor were going around saying that 12dp's EMO account had been frozen, nothing confirmed, but if Charis was moving money out of SP to fund EMO when all this started there couldn't be all that much there anyway. Egold account shouldn't have been used for a couple of months now so not much there either. Bank account with $1.9m in it, well Charis says it was for 12dp, so lets take her at her word and that money being frozen doesn't hurt her either.

Worst I see is that she needs to list all assets over $5k with the SEC. May be a problem, maybe not here is why:

The SEC says 12dp was a ponzi scheme & defrauded investors so they file a complaint. What they get- 12dp is shut down and receiver appointed to handle the money- SEC & receiver get nice cut of the money.

What does Charis get? $5k per month. What? Can someone please get me busted by the SEC so I can get paid $5k a month for letting them handle the wind down of the program and I have to do nothing, on something they call a ponzi. And they pay me $5k a month out of the assets. Hmm, this is a terrible result. i can see why Charis needs to be afraid of the SEC. Oh, yeah BTW just incase she needs it, her criminal attorney is getting paid $10k a month also, out of the assets of the "ponzi". That should build up a nice retainer quickly.

How quickly may this be resolved? Wishful thinking is probably in the neighborhood of 6 months. Thats $30k for Charis and $60k for her attorney. Not a bad salary to earn despite running a "ponzi"

It looks to me that the SEC wasn't very confident in it's position. Yeah it had the blackmail ability to file a complaint and hold it over Chari's head, but what real smackdown has been put on her? Think it over. If the SEC was going to go after her hard, why in the world agree to give her and her attorney salaries? I though you weren't supposed to benefit from illegal activity. Maybe it's not as illegal as they claim after all.

Stupid lies. It's the government trying to get rich at the expense of it's citizens. I was not deceived or defrauded. They use the stupidest words. Why don't they go after jerks like the admin of GCI surf and clixsurf and Rainsurf? thos were the real ponzi scammers. No, instead they go after the honest and legitimate ones. I hope Charis beats their butts in court! I hope lots of 12DP members provide statements. I will if asked.

I totally agree with you... In fact, many of the investors know they are ponzi in the first place. But just like gamble, even we know we have much higher probability in losing, we still wan to play as we always think that we can be the one who win....

What do you all think?

What does Charis get? $5k per month. What? Can someone please get me busted by the SEC so I can get paid $5k a month for letting them handle the wind down of the program and I have to do nothing, on something they call a ponzi. And they pay me $5k a month out of the assets. Hmm, this is a terrible result. i can see why Charis needs to be afraid of the SEC. Oh, yeah BTW just incase she needs it, her criminal attorney is getting paid $10k a month also, out of the assets of the "ponzi". That should build up a nice retainer quickly.

How quickly may this be resolved? Wishful thinking is probably in the neighborhood of 6 months. Thats $30k for Charis and $60k for her attorney. Not a bad salary to earn despite running a "ponzi"

It looks to me that the SEC wasn't very confident in it's position. Yeah it had the blackmail ability to file a complaint and hold it over Chari's head, but what real smackdown has been put on her? Think it over. If the SEC was going to go after her hard, why in the world agree to give her and her attorney salaries? I though you weren't supposed to benefit from illegal activity. Maybe it's not as illegal as they claim after all.

Dear Members,

The SEC has issued a warning to the entire autosurf industry. In our opinion this warning should be regarded as follows:

"If you are operating across the line, by this we have to assume Ponzi or 95% Ponzi, cease operations."

In our particular model, a substantial proportion of the net ROI we pay out to our members does in fact arrive from advertising. We are very different to 12DailyPro. However, we have to heed this warning simply because we want to continue doing business with our American cousins and we want to do it legitimately. We are not interested in non compliance.

Hence, we have introduced several controls.

The most important control is the Ad Pac application process. This ensures that we ONLY permit members to purchase Ad Pacs dependent on our ability to raise the revenues to pay them (from outside AD Pac revenues).

This control we believe is crucial. It effectively prevents a flood of Ad Pac purchases, from what is a strong demand lead market. Despite concerned authorities believing this is a supply driven market, in our experience, this market is consumer driven. Webmasters must learn to not give in to consumer demand which makes them or compells them to, in the words of the SEC, "cross the line."

Effectively, until we decide to accept new members to Ad Pac purchases AET is effectively a traffic exchange with a minor paid to surf element for new members. Again we have to repeat that Ad Pac purchases is going to be a private arrangement based on approval by application.

We have noticed that DadnDaves.net has closed for a couple of days to review the situation. The situation is not good. Because which ever way you turn your damned if you do and your damned if you don't. DadnDaves.net, to our knowledge, is strongly investment lead. It pays its members mainly through investments DadnDaves.net makes in other programs. The only advice we would give DadnDaves.net is increase the advertising features. Having said this members in DadnDaves.net ought to prepare for the worse.

Therefore, the question now arises what can YOU do as an autosurfer to support autosurf programs that you want to see survive.

The biggest way to support autosurfs that you want to see survive has to be to purchase advertising. This could be done through credit purchases, banner impression purchases. Essentially, any online advertising purchases that an autosurf offers. This in essence, is what our business is really about. Somewhere along the line it lost track or focus.

This was mainly because when webmasters gave autosurf members the choice to purchase advertising credits or upgrades freely. The member would always opt for upgrades. Some had the nerve to just take and never return. We realised this long ago and introduced measures to reward advertiser with earnings. We lost a lot of business doing it this way. Now if autosurfs want to survive they have to follow our lead.

We can inform autosurf owners that if they replicate our model they will be able to raise anything from 20% to 30% in advertising from within the program. We are the proof that it can be done. This is before making any investments to raise revenues.

Best wishes