Hmmm... I agree, good point.

I look at it this way... this business is full of sharks and you got to be at least a little cunning and a smooth talker, which we all know charis clearly is. You don't think a complete angel would survive in this business do you? She didn't ask for the donations, it was suggested by some members and she went with it, like I'm sure anyone one of us would... why? Because we're in this business to make money like she is. Why use your own funds to pay for a lawyer when you don't have to... that would be stupid.

I heard a few people did get some money back but I know it wasnt that many.

i am waiting for my emo 12dp makes me cry my 1200$+ are in

I had pending payments over 7k

It's all a waiting game now.

My point of view upon all the picture :

1. It was a huge debt forming inside stormpay books all over the way in the last year .

We all saw this - it's all abt stormslix, netiba, poor office etc

2. When E-gold "downtime" happened , and the worst they failed to inform Charis in time and in correct fashion abt what was going on, Charis jumped the gun and w/d-ed all her(our) egolds to her bank and,

3. concluded that Stormpay is the best to put that money first (- her biggest and mortal mistake.)

3. She then asked egolders - Where we want to move our money to and (!) said -"Stormpay is the quickest..." (- her smaller and slighter mistake to add that note that day..)

4. 90% of us have answered - "to Stormpay" . (- our biggest and mortal mistake.)

5. then, stormpay realised that it's the biggest bunch of $$ they'll probably hold in hands ever.

6. stormpay jumped the gun and decided to make an exuse to not releasing her money ( it wasn't hard, and - their most available decision at that moment.)

bottom line - stormpay had nothing else to do at that moment, otherwise at some point it'd appear by itself that stormpay has a lack of funds when ppl realize that they ie "cannot fund their Debit cards "in time (like it goes now with Uniclear), or smth like this and it would be nobody to blame but themselves.

witaing game i think everyone has waited long enough
waiting i meant waiting

I don't know if it's just a rumor, but my friend had found something about a possible deal between Charis and the "authorities". He never gave me any links so I couldn't post anything here, but from what he read Charis will make an announcement soon. Possible refunds will be issued ... good for those who weren't in profit. If you profited from 12dp and don't get anything ... please don't be greedy . My roommate invested his Vegas trip money. I hope he gets refunded so he can come with me so I don't get wasted alone and blow through my cash.

Excellent post...

We will just have to wait and see now guys, wait and hope for the best, Im no cheerleader for any program though I do support something if I see that it has something unique to offer, and of all the scams and nonpaying sites out there, Charis did stand out as an admin that really did pay to her members, and from a logistics stand point can you imagine having to manage the withdrawal requests for 100,000 plus people at least every week based on the timing of various upgrades...thats just krazy to me, and to think some are laughing about all of this...I really dont think its funny, do you know anyone that would run a site like this and take it upon themselves to be as straightforward as possible with us as she was? Yeah there are some good sites right now even after the whole 12DP situation, but everyone here will admit that 12DP did make a mark in the online money making/advertising industry untold of before its inception...

The 1.9 million in her bank account...well...it was her bank account that was connected to 12DP's SP account because it doesnt take a rocket scientist to realize that with SP, a company cant make an account in its name and then attach it to a bank account in its name, though under US law a corporation is considered a legal entity or individual...so there you go, she had to associate her SP account to her bank account that was in her name...and thats where im guessing SP pounced at her, when she requested the large withdrawal to increase the EMO reserves, they 'assumed' she would run away with the money, that 'there wouldnt be enough to pay members back;' and about the legal fees, that 1.9 mil was probably money she was able to manage to pull out prior to this whole mess, and from my interpretation of this saga, she chose not to utilize those funds for her legal efforts and so forth so that NO ONE would be able to later say "hey she had money and used it for this and that, why didnt she use it to fund people;" god knows how the media would have spun this had she actually moved money from her bank account...

~envious

Nearly five days with no update. Where has admin gone. Rumor of more deals. Any money left. What stage is the legal action at? Many unanswered questions.

If this is indeed true, it would be the best news that I've heard so far. (Trying to be optimistic here)

Here's the link to Charis compromise thead on the 12dp forums.

http://forums.12dailypro.com/smf/index.php...63865#msg163865

What questions you have still unanswered exactly ?

may be this will help ? -

Stormpayers will ask stormpay for their money, regardless of were it in 12DP's SP account or in surfer's SP account.

She did say that she will have a announcement on Monday about want is going on. She also said she had to make some compromises and that refunds will start although slow.

woww, nice to here from here, i hope i could get back my refund

i also came to know the same story.

all of us hope so

Hi guys,
Charis must be an extremely busy persom at the moment, so I assume hits daily pro will commence when(ever) all this SP rubbish is cleared up? If so, I guess it will be massive, since Charis has proved herself to be reliable and trustworthy. Can't wait to get in!

Good luck to all of you with refunds.

good morning i joined 12dp in oct 12th was in profit by nov 1st so i do not look for a refund at all! i was bringing home 500 to 750 every 6 days and my last to upgrades was 228.00 each But i dont expect a refund due to i was in profit BUT i do expect one for my 2 kids (both) over age 18 ya'll....
they joined late jan and had never recieved a cash out they had 2 upgrades each but the day before they were to of expired this all happened so im hoping they will get there upgraded amts refunded not what they earned that would make me happy

were those upgrades in egolds or emos?

No they were in SP but they do have EMO accts and i dont think Charis will be refunding any one in sp i know i wouldnt if i was her

i found this in her forum


Re: The Courthouse News
« Reply #15 on: Today at 08:26:09 AM »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The fact about this is that while we were cooeprating with the FBI and the US attorney's office, StormPay was going behind eveyrone's back and feeding lies to the SEC.

The SEC's fling contained allegations made from information they got from John McConnell, Steve, Girsky, and an ex-convict called Barry Minkow, none of which have any knowledge of the workings of financial status of 12daily Pro. The SEC never spoke with us, never interviewed us, never looked at our data, never looked at our bank accounts. The filing was simply done based on information from third parties and on securities laws.

One of the deceptions that StormPay fed them was that that amount of money listed above was withdrawn for personal use, which it wasn't. The fact is that StormPay does not have a merchant account option, like all other processors. When you join they make you create an account with your individual name and then when you add bank accounts their screen tells you very clearly that the bank account name MUST match the inidividual name on the account. So I followed their instructions and setup the account accordingly, because that was the only way I could. So, all funds we withdrew to fund our EMO account, conduct business operations, pay salaries, etc., were withdrawn into that individual account and then transferred into the LifeClicks bank account.

StormPay used this fact to imply to the SEC that we were 'skimming', in order to continue to malign us and deflect attention away from their own illegal actions and on to us. Apparantly they bought it. Until my attorney provided them with proof in the form of bank statements and EMO records that accounted for all that money. In fact they proved to them that over 70% of the money went directly into EMO. Now the SEC knows the truth regarding that.

But StormPay is not going to get away with what they have done. The FBI has StormPay in their sites.

Re: The Courthouse News
« Reply #19 on: Today at 08:36:33 AM »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: Elaway on Today at 08:31:30 AM
Quote
Until my attorney provided them with proof in the form of bank statements and EMO records that accounted for all that money. Now they know the truth regarding that.

Since they know the truth will they amend their ruling? Also, is there anything that 12dp can do to sp regarding their misrepresentations?


It was not a ruling. It was a filing from the SEC, basically stating the case they are claiming against us. It's just like anyone that has a claim against someone else. They filed the papers in court and then the other side responds.
Re: The Courthouse News
« Reply #21 on: Today at 08:39:20 AM »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: Elaway on Today at 08:37:56 AM
That's good that you will have the opportunity to respond.


We already have. Settlement has been reached. We will release a statement early this week regarding it.

okay .. that is the end for our numbers and letters in stormpay accounts ...


no wonder all other sites delete sp upgrades

The 1.9M was for EMO? Well that does make sense....is it true? WHo the hell knows at this point. Hopefully something happens soon.

ya know, after all this crap thats happened, I'd be happy just to get back SOMETHING so that I didn't have to say it was a total loss. Right now I'm madder about my $50 that stormpay zeroed out than I am at the $8K pending in 12DP, LOL

This appears to be good news..I guess we will find out on Monday.

Could anyone explain or weigh this
_______________________________________________________________________________________
You also must understand that part of the funds StormPay is holding are a good deal of money that was intended to fund our EMO account.(1) Thousands of members chose to have their (2)Egold payments paid to EMO or compounded to EMO. Funds for those witdhrawals (now refunds) weren't going to magically appear, we had to place them there(/2). It was in that attempt, that StormPay began blackmailing us. They denied that withdrawal and forced us to give in to the demands.
________________________________________________________________________________________

(1) - How could Stormpay funds be intended to fund 12DP's EMO account ?
I remember only EG-SP transition .. SP-EMO ?
(2) Why not to fund EMO right from E-Gold ? Or does it mean that after e-Gold being dropped that money were placed to Stormpay first ?

ya..i am wondering too..how can all the egold being convert into scampay?
i remember scampay removed the exchanging of egold to scampay and vice versa before all these **** happens..

Charis herself said she reached a compromise with the authorities and that refunds would be done one day and would be slow.

Obviously, SkunkPay has to release the funds before any refunding takes place. I'm sure the Feds are going to want control of that money and a receiver appointed to do some serious accounting work. We don't know yet what the Feds have been doing/seeing and what information they have/don't have.

NUK



I doubt it Charis says a settlement was reached and if that's true that means likely another appearance in court with the SEC changing their filing and explaining what is going on. With NC already issuing a cease-and-desist against 12DP, there is no "active" exchange of money going on(not that there was before really), so the sense of urgency in everything is not so great. Might not have a judge sitting around with an empty calendar to hear all this mess.

One thing that I don't believe from Charis at all is that SEC relied on what McConnell, Girsky, whoever was saying. The SEC after being contacted by NC probably took one look at the website saying 12% and immediately said to themselves *PONZI* This is the SEC involved, not the auxilliary squad at the local police station. They don't need former ponzi operators to tell them what is a ponzi and what isn't, the SEC tells others what a ponzi is.

NUK

No, actually Charis was partial to SP from the start for obvious reasons...she could fund it quickly from her bank account, and more members were using it. SP was also allowing Egold funding, which made that convenient for transferring funds, or for members to move their funds without exchangers.

When Egold had their problems in December, SP quickly eliminated funding by Egold, essentially cutting off Charis and members from being able to transfer directly....Egold became less attractive to Charis and a whole lot of other people/businesses, and at the time she decided to eliminate Egold as a payment option, there was still an outstanding court date for Egold to attend, leaving Egold's future in question in the eyes of account holders. People will argue that statement, but that's the reality....nobody knew what the outcome of those court proceedings would be. Given the situation at the time, and the size of the funds involved, if I had been Charis, I would have exited Egold too.

So she decided to leave Egold asap....from what she said at the time, she had depleted her Egold account making payouts, and was having problems getting more, as was everyone at the time, and had requested a SP withdrawl to move funds to EMO when she announced the switch in processors. She obviously had some funds still sitting in her bank account that was attached to the SP account, and if I had been in her boots, no way would I have sent those funds to EMO after my SP account was frozen.

Classy Lassie




Answered in my last post....read back.

Classy Lassie

It can't be. You would have to withdraw it and then buy gold or EMO.

This is where I go conspiracy therory.
That Stormpay-eGold thing was there for a purpose and that was to try to make Stormpay an easy option for people. So more people would use Stormpay instead of eGold. Bringing more money into the system. Just a guess.

Just like when they told autosurf operators to use them solely and no EMO or whatever else. I think the FBI and other alphabets were reading the books before this and maybe for a tax evasion type issue or something similar. May not be tax evasion but I think Stormpay did something and needed to make a cash dash to cover their asses.

With everyone spreading rumors that eGold was dying, it was easy for Stormpay to pick up on that.

Since this guy is a lawyer, he picked someone who would have almost no chance in court...HYIPs, MLMs, autosurfs, ponzi. He got whatever money he needed and then cut the umbilical cord that was bringing that cash in.

Hi glad to hear on updates EMo/12DP.. it is really stressful, not sure how longer will this go on..

No, from the start, when people offered donations, she never asked for them....they were OFFERED. And what she said throughout the time people donated was that she would use company funds to make up the shortfall. She let everyone know that there were company funds by making that statement, and with all this legal stuff going on cutting into the company coffers, and knowing that there were impending refunds, why does it surprise anyone that if she intended to proceed with the convention, she felt she might need to sell a piece of her personal property to have that convention in order to preserve the funds needed for the refunds?

The structure of her business was such that she was totally in her right to withdraw from company funds for wages, etc, but her personal property and home were protected in the case of a problem with the company. That means she never had to even think of selling her own car unless she did it of her own free will and because that was how much she wanted the convention to proceed.

Classy Lassie

ok, something happened to day and it kinda got me thinking...

my dog ate half of a £5 note

she left me some of it which is absolutely useless without the rest of it... guess I'll just have to wait for 'it' to hit the fan!

see any comparison?


lol - sorry this situation has just scrambled my brain

Maybe you should know :
http://www.freewebs.com/opalastone/

Hi, Classy Lassie! Can you tell it in plain and simple words ( not to offend, just bcos i'm non-english .. strange, but did understand TheMobileHookup's post almost completely though)

How did $6 of E-Gold get into all these delays while the E-Gold is still ok, and EMO accepts EG for only 4% ?

(sorry , but i still really don't realize any reason)

Sorry Mods. I just had to post this.

It appeared right next to the article in Courthousenews about 12dailypro internet scam.

I just find it kind of ironic that Utah through ABC4 news has made itself the judge and jury in
their statements against 12dailypro and Charis. What a lark!




Judge Steed

The Utah Supreme Court today gave a polygamous judge the chance to spend more time at home with his three wives, ordering his removal from the bench for flouting the law against bigamy.

The order ends the 25-year reign of Hildale Justice Court Judge Walter K. Steed, a member of a fundamentalist Mormon sect that practices plural or "celestial" marriage. His three wives, with whom he has 32 children, are all sisters.

"When the law is violated or ignored by those charged by society with the fair and impartial enforcement of the law, the stability of our society is placed at undue risk," the Supreme Court said.

Utah's Judicial Conduct Commission began an investigation of Steed in response to a complaint filed by Tapestry Against Polygamy, an anti-polygamy group.

Steed, a truck driver who earned $250 a month to dispense justice part time, argued that the bigamy law is unconstitutional and his domestic arrangements never affected his performance as a judge.

The Supreme Court didn't address the constitutional issue. But in accepting the commission's recommendation of removal, Associate Chief Justice Michael J. Wilkins wrote:

In the case of a sitting judge, it is of little or no consequence that the judge may believe a criminal statute is constitutionally defective. A judge ignores the clearly stated criminal prohibitions of the law at his or her peril.

Utah courts have previously found that polygamists cannot serve as police officers. "I am hopeful that the court will eventually consider the issue of polygamy as an aspect of personal privacy, marital rights and religious freedom," Steed said in a statement. "I am proud of my effort to bring the issue before the court and the people of Utah."

Nearly all the residents of Hildale and neighboring Colorado City, Ariz., belong to the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Fugitive church prophet Warren Jeffs, indicted last year in Arizona on child abuse charges, is currently on the FBI's Most Wanted list.

2/24/06

Yeah, I'll argue that situation for sure.
When did egold go to court recently in the last year or so? I know about once 2 or 3 years ago but not since.

NUK

I'm lost as to why you are apologizing to the moderators...

Utah shouldn't be the state to talk about what's right in this country. They're probably the most backwards state of the union. (Sorry Utah residents but it's true)

Yes stormpay took advantage of the egold situation. They were making it easy for everyone to dump their egold into their stormpay account at like 3%. Then the week of christmas they pulled egold funding out of the system....and remained silent. The stormpay forum had people asking why and when will it be back and the mods answered with cryptic responses.....it left people thinking "uh oh...stormpay knows something we dont about egold". Intgold was toast and stormpay was letting our imaginations run wild that egold would be next. "Stormpay has pulled egold funding to protect the companys best interests". (or some crap like that)

Stormpay can say what they like about 12dp members being such an insignificant portion of their business, I sure don't believe it. They are going down on this one.

As far as her money in the bank and the legal defense fund and all that. Its easy to speculate either way. She seems too shrewd to mobilize the membership base into calling so much attention to all of this by:...first and foremost...staying in contact instead of just pulling everything off the web like everyone else does..and second by allowing a defense fund for even more membership involvement and even more attention.

She didn't just post a message saying "folks work to get your money out of stormpay, we will be coming back as a private program so I am pulling everything off the web and I will contact you by email very.....soon....toodles ". Freeland opps did that and kept their members quiet looking in their email everyday for invitations to the new program complete with their old membership balances.

None of this has played out like I would have guessed....its interesting to watch to say the least.

Didn't realize I was easy to understand

EMO and eGold at the time of the problems was 1%, it went up to 4% some time after that. Should have stuck to eGold.

I just decided to read the very 1st page of this thread.. the good 'ol days

I just meant that it was off topic. Did anyone see this reported by ABC4 news?

I don't understand your question....

I take it you upgraded in Egold...so did I. I take it you have yours sent to EMO. Mine went to SP. We all know what happened with Egold in December....the Fed's walked in, we all discovered that Egold was being taken to court. Some exchangers stopped dealing in Egold, other exchanges stopped doing exchanges for awhile...just sat on their funds.......some exchangers upped the price of Egold, like EMO did. SP chose to end their relationship with Egold for good.

Charis made it clear that she could not get enough funds into Egold to pay people (and if you looked around at the time, lots of businesses were struggling to obtain Egold for payouts), so having the option to send funds through Egold to EMO was no help to those whose upgrades went there....there was no Egold money to send. From her bank, she funded her SP account in preparation for paying those whose upgrades had transitioned there, then discovered she'd put too much money there....should have sent more to EMO instead. Then SP froze her account......she couldn't get it out to send it to EMO.

That's the basic time line....does that help?

Classy Lassie

egold was only down a total of 3 days and at the time no one knew why. It wasn't until they were back up and running for a couple of weeks that egold themselves revealed why they were actually down(fed search).
With egold, extended downtime is nothing new and some just panicked too soon. They've made it for years despite lousy service and a website that goes down a lot and have always had a much better reputation that SuckPay.

NUK

Nuk, did you ever read the very long letter that Egold owner himself posted on his site for two weeks? He stated outright that he'd just been to court, and thought he came out ok on that one, and that he was being taken to court again and was "optomistic" that there'd be a good outcome. He posted it after the Business Week article came out.

Classy Lassie

That was what spooked me also. He mentioned something about "going to be agressive in the court system" or something to that effect....I thought then Oh crap.

He never said he went to court because egold has not been charged with anything He said the Feds showed-up with search warrants and searched egold's data, knocking the servers offline for a few days. When 12DP switched to SP, it was NOT known at that time that the Feds had visited egold HQ in Florida.

NUK

If the present speculations are even remotely true, it doesn't look like that will happen, but that's the thing I'm waiting to hear. I've already kissed my refund goodbye, so that's just icing on the cake

No, he said he was considering suing Business Week for what he called *slander.* Just hot-air from Dr. Jackson.

NUK