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MoneyMakerGroup > HYIPs, Autosurfs, & Other High-Risk Opportunities > *NEW* PTS and PTA > Closed, Inactive & Offline PTA & PTS Programs
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HYIPproofDOTcom
QUOTE(headystuff @ Feb 11 2006, 02:06 PM) [snapback]1179487[/snapback]

Interesting article:

Recently AutoSurt Systems have had a lot of bad press because normal people who are not into the Internet marketing world have said due to sheer ignorance that the systems are Pozi schemes that cannot hope to pay what they promise.

The Fact is, they are WRONG. Here is how we can afford to pay.

One of the main problems with a return on investment (ROI) calculation is that it does not tell us how the returns are produced. Nor does it tell us what the economies of scale are in the enterprise to which the initial capital was invested. Further, it tells us nothing about the capital intensiveness of the enterprise. All this information is necessary to understand the "how and why" of the ROI percentage. This is probably what has lead to the recent debates across the world determining that auto surfs surely must be a Pyramid scam or Ponzi when in actual fact they are not at all that.

One of the factors that greatly influence the "how and why" of the ROI is what I will call the Knowledge and Entrepreneurial Factor (KEF for short). What this basically means is that a great deal depends on what the custodian of capital does with it and the leverage that's used in its deployment. Keep in mind that many variables fit within the "entrepreneurial" factor.

If I gave $1,000 to an average Joe, he might just go and waste it on garbage he'll buy in Walmart or Best Buy. Another person might put it in the bank and earn 2% interest annually. Another person might take it and make over $1 million with it in 5 months.
This is exactly what an 18 year old kid in the UK did with his pixel marketing website.
The return on this young entrepreneur's investment is an astounding 100,000% in just 5 months. That's an average of 666% return per day. Is this an unusual circumstance? No. Large ROI's are made all the time in the business world. You just don't always hear about it.

If a wholesaler buys a product for $100 and retails it to an end user for $200 within a few days, he has produced a 100% return in a short time. Thousands of these kinds of transactions occur on ebay every single day. And you rarely hear anyone crying: SCAM.
These high returns are produced because the wholesaler employs greater leverage and has better market knowledge than the end retail buyer. Arbitrage opportunities in the financial and business world are where some the biggest ROIs are produced.

One of the things the internet has done is dramatically reduce the capital overhead for many types of businesses, thus increasing their ROI. To illustrate this, consider Dell Computer. Almost 100% of Dell's sales occur on the internet or by phone order. If Dell were selling their computers through storefront locations across the globe, their economies of scale would be far less efficient and subsequently their capital ROI would be lower.

The internet has allowed the average person to start and run a business from their home and make a fortune. Huge returns on investment are possible. This is where the KEF factor comes in. The stronger the KEF, the higher the returns will be.

A Dean from Brigham Young University in Utah has stated: "no true economic investment can hope to return 44% in 12 days...."

If you read between the lines, the good Dean is really saying the following: "I have personally never produced a 44% return in 12 days on any funds I have invested, thus it is highly unlikely that it can be done." He is pointing the finger at his own inability.

To be fair, there IS an element of truth to what he is saying. If a manufacturing company were to invest tens of millions of dollars in a new plant, the company would be very happy with a 5% return in the first few years. Generally speaking, the more capital intensive an enterprise is, the lower the ROI will be from that investment. If the Dean were speaking of industrial enterprises only, he would be correct.

Because many internet enterprises, particularly along the lines of internet marketing, require such a low capital investment and a virtually unlimited sales potential across the globe, ROIs can be absolutely staggering and blow ones mind. With regard to the sales volume, THAT is where the KEF factor again kicks in.

A legitimately run auto surf enterprise requires very little capital investment. All you need is good server and database hardware, and support, technical, and development staff. The low overhead is precisely what has enabled the rash of scams to enter this market and thus devalue the product of a legitimate auto surf.

Compare an auto surf to a capital intensive television network. Capital wise, its like night and day. The typical TV network employs thousands of people and owns/operates/leases billions of dollars of equipment and infrastructure. Many of the employees are high priced actors.

The commonality of an auto surf website and a TV network's airtime is that its value is directly proportional to the audience it has. The more viewers that watch a particular TV network, the more valuable its ad space becomes. Similarly, the more members and traffic that visit an auto surf website, the more valuable its ad space becomes. The reasons people watch TV are the same they visit an auto surf site: they both offer the visitor a value for their time. It does not matter what the characteristics of the values offered are. Whets important is that the visitor desires it.

Add to that the limitless source of revenues that an auto surf can obtain. Sources can include affiliate commissions, strategic partnerships, promotions, and different kinds and levels of advertising. There are likely other sources that neither you or I can even imagine at present. All this revenue with relatively low capital investment. The ROIs for an auto surf will far exceed that of a TV network with huge overhead. The capital savings of an auto surf can be shared with the members of the site in the same way marketing and distribution savings are revenue shared with customers of an MLM company.

One of the bugaboos I have heard is that if auto surf is so good, then everyone will eventually catch on and do it, thereby saturating the market. What an absurdity! The very same thing was said about Multi Level Marketing companies years ago. Yet in the roughly 30 years since Amway started the revolution, the market is no where near saturated and is currently a Trillion dollar industry.

MLM is also an industry that has been targeted by the critics and labelled ponzi/pyramid schemes, the same way auto surfs are today. There is truth to the matter in that many mlm and auto surf operations ARE ponzi/pyramids. That doesn't make it true for all of them.
I am optimistic that auto surfs will not disappear from the market, and that the authorities will let them continue in the same way they have let the MLM industry continue.

So the burning question remains: What is a "legitimate" or "realistic" Return on Investment? In my view, there is absolutely no concrete answer to that. It depends on many variables.

The average person judges what's "realistic" by what they view as the so called "norm". They see their bank offering 2% a year, or the average return of a mutual fund being x%.
Or perhaps they see a frenzy of idiots buying and bidding up the price of stocks of company's that have no hope to ever turning a profit. (a 20% rise in stock prices and they think they are investors and getting rich). Perhaps this is one of the reasons why the "average" person loses money in their investments, works for 30 years and retires below the poverty line. Again, the all powerful KEF determines the outcome.


This article, in my opinion is absolutely amazing. I love it. Not necessarily because it legitimizes the autosurf Industry or because it answers any hidden questions about the Autosurf Industry but because it generally answers why people are successful in any business. People wonder how and why I do not have a "real" job. I'm 26 and my parents still think I'm crazy. Everyone does in fact. People just don't understand how easy money can be to make and how much ROI you can create from good ideas, persistance and a good plan. I look at a blank CD as money... I pulled out 100 blank CD's and sat them on my desk and my girlfriend asked, why did you get those out? I told her that since we lost so much money in 12DP, AT and a few other Autosurfs - not to mention the $1,000+ StormPay siphoned from my account from Xbox 360 Wholesale Info that we needed to make a lot of money fast. I can take a .25 cent CD and make $49.75 profit - EASY.

Thank you for whoever wrote this article.

Welcome to the REAL world of Internet Business and Entrepreneurship.
matratzac
how the hell do u get $50 worth of stuff on a single cd man. i wanna know.
MrsHoot
QUOTE(HYIPproofDOTcom @ Feb 11 2006, 10:19 PM) [snapback]1181481[/snapback]

This article....

This was not an "article" just someone's opinion - to be clear this was NOT released by the media - it's just a prior post ... and PLEASE it's already been ripped apart by at least one senior member dry.gif

And here's the ddos report link another poster refered to: http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2006/02/...dos_attack.html
jolee
QUOTE(matratzac @ Feb 11 2006, 08:23 PM) [snapback]1181516[/snapback]

how the hell do u get $50 worth of stuff on a single cd man. i wanna know.

me too, plz share
MrsHoot
QUOTE(matratzac @ Feb 11 2006, 10:23 PM) [snapback]1181516[/snapback]

how the hell do u get $50 worth of stuff on a single cd man. i wanna know.

He told you how - he's going to sell pirated copies of Xbox games annoyed.gif
justthefacts
QUOTE(MrsHoot @ Feb 11 2006, 09:02 PM) [snapback]1181016[/snapback]

Copied from 12DP site from Charis:

OK everyone....

Cease fire.

It seems an explanation has been issued. It seems the reporter is taking the wrap for 'misunderstanding' John McConnell.' ...

"Thank you for your e-mail.
This was a mistake on my part. I misunderstood what Mr. McConnell was
referring to. There are also a couple other things I need to correct and
will do so in Sunday¹s edition.
Could you please pass along this information on the 12DailyPro forum. I do
not have time to respond to all the e-mails and calls I¹ve received
regarding the error. I apologize to everyone.
Thanks,
Mark Hicks
Night City Editor
The Leaf-Chronicle"
Should be interesting to see what new lies they'll print tomorrow. But for now, perhaps Mr. Hicks has gotten enough truth for today.


I told you this earlier, Girsky paid off the reporter to say that the date in the report was a typo. The original article said jan 8 was the last payments made by 12daily when in fact it was not. The reporter will now print the last date and time a payment was made per his payoff.....
fame
Does anyone care if SCUMPAY is telling the truth about DDOS attacks??? doh.gif

What explanation do they have for stealing money from our accounts? dry.gif
MrsHoot
QUOTE(fame @ Feb 11 2006, 09:35 PM) [snapback]1181213[/snapback]

...

OT - Not for nothing but, your sig really offends me - I am not gay (not that there's anything wrong with it! LOL!) However, I live in a gay friendly town and many other business owners I work with are gay -I know they would be equally (if not more) insulted by your derogatory use of the word...there are so many other "good ones" out there - won't you consider being less offensive and change your signature?

Now back on topic - F censored2.gif ing SP!!!
furious.gif furious.gif furious.gif
nursepower
Previously on "As the ProStormScam Turns", Charis and Steve were on a plane that was heading for a crash landing and had a detective on their trail.


As the plane goes down
IPB Image


Charis and Steve say a final prayer.
IPB Image


The plane crashes in an odd place. (Guess the pilot should have bought the full version of the software.)
IPB Image


Steve suffers a minor boo boo, but has a fit anyway.
IPB Image


And threatens to sue.
IPB Image


The pilot however is not very sympathetic.
IPB Image


Seems like the pilot was a 12Daily Pro member as well and lost money with scumsuck.
IPB Image


He however didn't want his money back. He wanted revenge.
IPB Image


Steve lost.
IPB Image



Tune in tomorrow for the exciting conclusion of the fight and find out if the detective will find Steve and Charis.
samtastic
QUOTE(HYIPproofDOTcom @ Feb 11 2006, 07:19 PM) [snapback]1181481[/snapback]

This article, in my opinion is absolutely amazing. I love it. Not necessarily because it legitimizes the autosurf Industry or because it answers any hidden questions about the Autosurf Industry but because it generally answers why people are successful in any business. People wonder how and why I do not have a "real" job. I'm 26 and my parents still think I'm crazy. Everyone does in fact. People just don't understand how easy money can be to make and how much ROI you can create from good ideas, persistance and a good plan. I look at a blank CD as money... I pulled out 100 blank CD's and sat them on my desk and my girlfriend asked, why did you get those out? I told her that since we lost so much money in 12DP, AT and a few other Autosurfs - not to mention the $1,000+ StormPay siphoned from my account from Xbox 360 Wholesale Info that we needed to make a lot of money fast. I can take a .25 cent CD and make $49.75 profit - EASY.

Thank you for whoever wrote this article.

Welcome to the REAL world of Internet Business and Entrepreneurship.


How's that? Bootleg?
markwfo
[color=#FF0000]kelldell are we gonna make the big bucks in here or what?? thumbup(1).gif
justthefacts
QUOTE(nursepower @ Feb 11 2006, 10:44 PM) [snapback]1181703[/snapback]

Previously on "As the ProStormScam Turns", Charis and Steve were on a plane that was heading for a crash landing and had a detective on their trail.
As the plane goes down
IPB Image
Charis and Steve say a final prayer.
IPB Image
The plane crashes in an odd place. (Guess the pilot should have bought the full version of the software.)
IPB Image
Steve suffers a minor boo boo, but has a fit anyway.
IPB Image
And threatens to sue.
IPB Image
The pilot however is not very sympathetic.
IPB Image
Seems like the pilot was a 12Daily Pro member as well and lost money with scumsuck.
IPB Image
He however didn't want his money back. He wanted revenge.
IPB Image
Steve lost.
IPB Image
Tune in tomorrow for the exciting conclusion of the fight and find out if the detective will find Steve and Charis.

Yeahhhhhhh Nursepower. I think you should get syndication for it
nursepower
I'm sorry what's syndication?


And sorry it's not very good today. Kind of a rush job.
Tamara
Just received this information from one of my programs Admin. Thought it might be useful to you:

The Tennessee Division of Consumer Affairs is accepting complaints
regarding accounts with StormPay.com.

To file a complaint, call (800) 342-8385 or go to the department's Web
site at www.state.tn.us/consumer.

Hard copies are available by calling the office or writing to:

The Division of Consumer Affairs,
500 James Robertson Pkwy.,
Nashville, TN 37243-0600.
chloe2651
QUOTE(MrsHoot @ Feb 12 2006, 02:38 PM) [snapback]1181644[/snapback]

OT - Not for nothing but, your sig really offends me - I am not gay (not that there's anything wrong with it! LOL!) However, I live in a gay friendly town and many other business owners I work with are gay -I know they would be equally (if not more) insulted by your derogatory use of the word...there are so many other "good ones" out there - won't you consider being less offensive and change your signature?

Now back on topic - F censored2.gif ing SP!!!
furious.gif furious.gif furious.gif

People like you make me sick. There is more than one meaning to that word. Why do you care to try and take a negative angle on things. screwy.gif screwy.gif screwy.gif
markwfo
wave.gif so are we gonna get paid anytime soon ???? give me the short version so i dont have to readthe past 50 pages
nursepower
QUOTE(markwfo @ Feb 11 2006, 10:55 PM) [snapback]1181801[/snapback]

wave.gif so are we gonna get paid anytime soon ???? give me the short version so i dont have to readthe past 50 pages




NO



SHort enough for you?
HYIPproofDOTcom
QUOTE(samtastic @ Feb 11 2006, 07:46 PM) [snapback]1181715[/snapback]

How's that? Bootleg?


Absolutely not. It's called entrepreneurship. I have 8 product sets that I can reproduce for free now and sell them. I have done it for 4 1/2 years. It's not illegal and old ladies LOVE my CD's. wink.gif

Gees people, I promise it's not hard. Do some google searches and see all those people pay $2 a click? There is a reason.
fame
QUOTE(MrsHoot @ Feb 11 2006, 07:38 PM) [snapback]1181644[/snapback]

OT - Not for nothing but, your sig really offends me - I am not gay (not that there's anything wrong with it! LOL!) However, I live in a gay friendly town and many other business owners I work with are gay -I know they would be equally (if not more) insulted by your derogatory use of the word...there are so many other "good ones" out there - won't you consider being less offensive and change your signature?

Now back on topic - F censored2.gif ing SP!!!
furious.gif furious.gif furious.gif


Somebody suggested it to me. The word "GAY" has different meanings. But you are right. Stormpay doesn't seem to fit the other meanings so I have removed it from my signature. Sorry if anyone was offended.

MrsHoot
QUOTE(chloe2651 @ Feb 11 2006, 10:53 PM) [snapback]1181788[/snapback]

People like you make me sick. There is more than one meaning to that word. Why do you care to try and take a negative angle on things. screwy.gif screwy.gif screwy.gif

I MAKE YOU SICK???? Because I'm offended by the us of the word gay in a negative way?
I'm sorry my OPINION make you ill but that's really your problem not mine tongue4.gif

I'd be happy to debate you on the use of slang in the English Language but this is not the forum for it - glad you had something constructive to add here tonight dry.gif

I'm out of here...goodnight ladies and gents (and chloe, too)

P.S. markwfo - rofl4.gif rofl4.gif rofl4.gif rofl4.gif rofl4.gif
Oh that was a good one! Thanks, I needed a good laugh before I left here!
nuk
QUOTE(nursepower @ Feb 11 2006, 10:44 PM) [snapback]1181703[/snapback]

Previously on "As the ProStormScam Turns", Charis and Steve were on a plane that was heading for a crash landing and had a detective on their trail.
As the plane goes down
IPB Image
Charis and Steve say a final prayer.
IPB Image
The plane crashes in an odd place. (Guess the pilot should have bought the full version of the software.)
IPB Image
Steve suffers a minor boo boo, but has a fit anyway.
IPB Image
And threatens to sue.
IPB Image
The pilot however is not very sympathetic.
IPB Image
Seems like the pilot was a 12Daily Pro member as well and lost money with scumsuck.
IPB Image
He however didn't want his money back. He wanted revenge.
IPB Image
Steve lost.
IPB Image
Tune in tomorrow for the exciting conclusion of the fight and find out if the detective will find Steve and Charis.


I can't wait! thumbup(1).gif biggrin.gif

NUK
MrsHoot
QUOTE(fame @ Feb 11 2006, 11:04 PM) [snapback]1181872[/snapback]

Somebody suggested it to me. The word "GAY" has different meanings. But you are right. Stormpay doesn't seem to fit the other meanings so I have removed it from my signature. Sorry if anyone was offended.

THANK YOU!!!!!
clapping7.gif clapping7.gif clapping7.gif
justthefacts
QUOTE(nursepower @ Feb 11 2006, 10:49 PM) [snapback]1181753[/snapback]

I'm sorry what's syndication?
And sorry it's not very good today. Kind of a rush job.


We can sell it to the networks all across the country.
fame
QUOTE(MrsHoot @ Feb 11 2006, 08:06 PM) [snapback]1181887[/snapback]

THANK YOU!!!!!
clapping7.gif clapping7.gif clapping7.gif


You are welcome.

I hope the CROOKS don't feel offended this time. tongue4.gif
HYIPproofDOTcom
QUOTE(justthefacts @ Feb 11 2006, 08:11 PM) [snapback]1181923[/snapback]

We can sell it to the networks all across the country.


Now we're talkin', LOL
fame
QUOTE(nursepower @ Feb 11 2006, 07:57 PM) [snapback]1181825[/snapback]

NO
SHort enough for you?


rofl4.gif rofl4.gif rofl4.gif
CrazyHYIP
I hate this smiley ----> bye2.gif and this crying.gif

when speaking of losing money use ---> 4.gif or this diablo.gif

thank you wave.gif
justthefacts
QUOTE(HYIPproofDOTcom @ Feb 11 2006, 11:14 PM) [snapback]1181955[/snapback]

Now we're talkin', LOL


How about a new nursepower auto surf where we can earn 100% a day for 10 days and view your net soap daily...
nursepower
We now have guidelines for smilies.....oi vey.


Hey crazy.... bye2.gif crying.gif bye2.gif crying.gif bye2.gif crying.gif bye2.gif crying.gif




HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

QUOTE(justthefacts @ Feb 11 2006, 11:19 PM) [snapback]1182001[/snapback]

How about a new nursepower auto surf where we can earn 100% a day for 10 days and view your net soap daily...




Sure.....any payprocessor accept monopoly money? Cause that's all ya'll get.
CrazyHYIP
QUOTE(nursepower @ Feb 11 2006, 08:23 PM) [snapback]1182021[/snapback]

We now have guidelines for smilies.....oi vey.
Hey crazy.... bye2.gif crying.gif bye2.gif crying.gif bye2.gif crying.gif bye2.gif crying.gif
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Sure.....any payprocessor accept monopoly money? Cause that's all ya'll get.


dont make me come over there! 4.gif wave.gif
nursepower
I feel threatened. I think I might cry.




crying.gif crying.gif crying.gif crying.gif crying.gif bye2.gif harhar.gif
fame
QUOTE(CrazyHYIP @ Feb 11 2006, 08:18 PM) [snapback]1182000[/snapback]

when speaking of losing money use ---> 4.gif or this diablo.gif

thank you wave.gif


There you go tongue4.gif

SCAMPAY stole my money! 4.gif 4.gif diablo.gif diablo.gif 4.gif 4.gif
to_rich_and_famous
QUOTE(CrazyHYIP @ Feb 11 2006, 08:18 PM) [snapback]1182000[/snapback]

I hate this smiley ----> bye2.gif and this crying.gif

when speaking of losing money use ---> 4.gif or this diablo.gif

thank you wave.gif


I believe you are in 4.gif furious.gif diablo.gif right now smile.gif
CrazyHYIP
Now lets go storm scampay!

dance9bh.gif
mcarraway
Will 12 daily pro give us back the money that StormPay just sent back to them??
Or did they really send money back to 12DP... OR ARE they BROKE??? Just telling us
they charged back.... When all along.... Thay have done squat BUT, take our money???
Tamara
QUOTE(mcarraway @ Feb 11 2006, 11:35 PM) [snapback]1182125[/snapback]

Will 12 daily pro give us back the money that StormPay just sent back to them??
Or did they really send money back to 12DP... OR ARE they BROKE??? Just telling us
they charged back.... When all along.... Thay have done squat BUT, take our money???



I think all of us would like to know the answer to that question. Who knows doh.gif One of these days I "might" be able to change my avatar to a walking "dollar" bill, if I EVER get any money rofl4.gif
RT8888
QUOTE(mcarraway @ Feb 12 2006, 12:35 PM) [snapback]1182125[/snapback]

Will 12 daily pro give us back the money that StormPay just sent back to them??
Or did they really send money back to 12DP... OR ARE they BROKE??? Just telling us
they charged back.... When all along.... Thay have done squat BUT, take our money???


Do you think scampay will sent backt he money to 12DP ?

Scampay return our $$ & go hell furious.gif 4.gif furious.gif
Rajack
QUOTE(wlthbldr05 @ Feb 11 2006, 11:41 PM) [snapback]1182167[/snapback]

I think all of us would like to know the answer to that question. Who knows doh.gif One of these days I "might" be able to change my avatar to a walking "dollar" bill, if I EVER get any money rofl4.gif


rofl4.gif clapping7.gif rofl4.gif clapping7.gif rofl4.gif clapping7.gif good one
RT8888
BS FROM STORMPAY furious.gif

latest news from Stormpay :


February 11, 2006 Update to StormPay Customers.
11-Feb-2006 17:12
February 11, 2006

StormPay Inc. is currently suffering from DDOS (Distributed Denial of
Service) attacks which prevent StormPay from sending or receiving email
communications as well as prevents customers from being able to access their
StormPay account's through the StormPay.com website. These DDOS attacks in
no way compromise the security of your StormPay account as they are only
designed to prevent legitimate traffic access. Federal authorities are
investigating the origination of the attacks and have confirmed that they
are very close to making arrests in connection with the DDOS attacks.

We are sure that many of you are aware of the recent controversy with Charis
F. Johnson and other "Auto-Surf websites". The funds of those merchant's and
specifically Charis F. Johnson have been locked in their StormPay accounts
as investigations are ongoing into what appears to be massive illegal Ponzi
schemes. Any payments you may have received from these "Auto-Surf's, that
were still within the StormPay system have been restored back to the
accounts' of those 'Auto-Surf's where the funds are protected and preserved
in an effort to try and refund customers who may have been victims of these
programs. We can confirm that there will not be enough money available to
get everybody reimbursed but we are formulating an orderly plan to reimburse
victims to the limited extent that may be possible.

The problem we are seeing is that customers are viewing their "earnings"
from the "Auto-Surfing" websites' and believe that StormPay Inc. is holding
funds sufficient to cover those "earnings". StormPay is not holding funds
sufficient to cover the alleged "earnings" or "payments" or "payouts" that
are reflected on the Auto-Surf's website (we suspect we are holding only a
small fraction of what is being reflected as "owed" to customers on the
websites). Some customers that received a "payout" from these "Auto-Surf's
received that at the expense of somebody else who contributed to the program
but who may have never received any "payout". Consequently, the reason that
we have restored funds back to the accounts of these so called "Auto-Surfs"
that represent payments that some members received was so that we can
attempt to reimburse as many people as possible. In the usual Ponzi scheme,
if you received a payment from the program it had to have come from the
payments that another member made to the program. Therefore, if you have
received a payment, you received someone else's money. That is the problem
with a Ponzi scheme, once it collapses a lot of people get hurt. There is no
way to make everybody "whole" and most people will lose money as there
simply won't be available funds to make everybody "whole." The reason that
is, once people withdraw their "payouts" or "earnings" out of StormPay, that
represents other peoples money, and if the only money coming in is from new
"investors" (and not any other source), there is no "new" money available to
make payouts or even refunds to some members.

Assume you have a customer (customer #1) who funds their StormPay account
with $1000 and sends that money to one of these "Auto-Surf's". Then customer
#2 follows up by funding their StormPay account and thereafter sends $1200
to the same "Auto-Surf". Thereafter, the "Auto-Surf" sends $1200 to customer
#1 for their percentage of promised "return" on their original "payment" and
thereafter, the program shuts down as it did in these cases. In a Pyramid
type operation/program/scheme there is no longer any new money coming into
the program to pay back customer #2. Customer #2's payment was what was used
to pay customer #1. If this is not a Pyramid operation there should be money
to refund customer #2 but there is not in this case. StormPay Inc. cannot
allow customer #1 withdraw the money in his StormPay account (which was
received from the "Auto-Surf") into his own personal bank account, since it
is really the money belonging to customer #2. The only solution is to
reverse as many of the funds as possible so that many more victims of the
ponzi/pyramid schemes can be reimbursed their original "investment". Keep in
mind that many of the first people into the schemes have already withdrawn
the funds rightfully belonging to the later participants. Despite our best
efforts to correct the seemingly wrong doing of these "Auto-Surfs", there
simply will not be enough remaining monies to make everyone "whole". Again,
this is due to those admins and other participants of the programs' who have
withdrawn monies rightfully belonging to others. StormPay Inc. is currently
undergoing an audit, near completion, and done with our absolute and
complete cooperation, which will show that every penny of money we have ever
had control of can and has been accounted for.

StormPay does not permit the processing of payments for any illegal program
and our Terms of Service expressly prohibit the processing of any payments
for any illegal Ponzi or Pyramid scheme. Our Terms of Service do expressly
provide:

"17. Get Rich Quick" Schemes: Get Rich Quick Schemes are prohibited resell
items by StormPay. Get Rich Quick schemes include any type of
self-employment, start-up businesses, or investment opportunity where the
claims of profit or returns on investment are unrealistic or unsupported. By
law, if a business opportunity costs $500.00 USD or more, the promoter is
required to support any claims regarding earnings or profits with written
documentation.

Pyramids don't pay. StormPay Inc. and the Federal Trade Commission caution
consumers about clubs or programs that promise quick money for recruiting
new members. Don't bank on the pyramid promise that someone else will pay
you. For more information on get-rich-quick schemes, visit the FTC at
www.ftc.gov."


There are claims afloat that StormPay Inc. has performed unauthorized
charges from customers' bank accounts or credit cards. StormPay can, and
will prove to any and all investigators that all charges made were made from
each individual's own computer, or a computer from which the customer has
accessed, and was an authorized charge by that customer. StormPay Inc.
intends to investigate each and every assertion wherein it has been claimed
that StormPay Inc. initiated and unauthorized bank or credit card debit, and
will prosecute those persons, and seek recovery of, all funds wrongfully
charged back, including all costs involved to do so.

StormPay Inc. would like to take this opportunity thank it's customers for
their continued support - past, present, and future. We very much look
forward to the time in which all investigations have been completed and the
truth is revealed to the public and our valued customers. We anticipate
having access to our website in the coming hours and resuming normal
business operations.

Sincerely,

StormPay Inc.
1690 Golf Club Ln.
Clarksville, TN 37043
Tazzz
QUOTE(wlthbldr05 @ Feb 11 2006, 08:41 PM) [snapback]1182167[/snapback]

I think all of us would like to know the answer to that question. Who knows doh.gif One of these days I "might" be able to change my avatar to a walking "dollar" bill, if I EVER get any money rofl4.gif


BTW love the avatar you have, I used to use that same pic along time ago as mine on another site, and its been my profiles avatar in windows logon since XP came out hehe!! smile.gif
jasminesweet
I don’t get it. Stormpay claimed that members didn’t receive any payment since the 8th of Jan and later retracts that statement. Then what could the date be? I think it should be “members haven’t received any payment from 12dp since stormpay dropped the bomb shell on Feb 1st.

“There are claims afloat that StormPay Inc. has performed unauthorized charges from customers’ bank accounts or credit cards. StormPay can, and will prove to any and all investigators that all charges made were made from each individual’s own computer, or a computer from which the customer has accessed, and was an authorized charge by that customer

And I want to see how they are going to cover up this one(in bold). 4.gif
kramralk
QUOTE(jasminesweet @ Feb 11 2006, 10:12 PM) [snapback]1182403[/snapback]

I don’t get it. Stormpay claimed that members didn’t receive any payment since the 8th of Jan and later retracts that statement. Then what could the date be? I think it should be “members haven’t received any payment from 12dp since stormpay dropped the bomb shell on Feb 1st.

“There are claims afloat that StormPay Inc. has performed unauthorized charges from customers’ bank accounts or credit cards. StormPay can, and will prove to any and all investigators that all charges made were made from each individual’s own computer, or a computer from which the customer has accessed, and was an authorized charge by that customer

And I want to see how they are going to cover up this one(in bold). 4.gif



I dont know about the 8th of Jan., but 12DP still owes me from the 4th and another one for the 27th.
kango
I want my money back Stormpay! Rotten thieves.. 4.gif Karanga
fame
QUOTE(kramralk @ Feb 11 2006, 09:18 PM) [snapback]1182458[/snapback]

I dont know about the 8th of Jan., but 12DP still owes me from the 4th and another one for the 27th.


EMO or SP?
mlb5000
QUOTE(kramralk @ Feb 12 2006, 12:18 AM) [snapback]1182458[/snapback]

I dont know about the 8th of Jan., but 12DP still owes me from the 4th and another one for the 27th.



I can personnally say that the Jan 8 thing is complete BS. I got my last payout from 12dp on January 28. At any rate, I dont care at this point...my chargeback paperwork should be here on monday, I'm filling it out and hoping for the best. There's nothing else I can do.
Tazzz
QUOTE(jasminesweet @ Feb 11 2006, 09:12 PM) [snapback]1182403[/snapback]

I don’t get it. Stormpay claimed that members didn’t receive any payment since the 8th of Jan and later retracts that statement. Then what could the date be? I think it should be “members haven’t received any payment from 12dp since stormpay dropped the bomb shell on Feb 1st.

“There are claims afloat that StormPay Inc. has performed unauthorized charges from customers’ bank accounts or credit cards. StormPay can, and will prove to any and all investigators that all charges made were made from each individual’s own computer, or a computer from which the customer has accessed, and was an authorized charge by that customer

And I want to see how they are going to cover up this one(in bold). 4.gif


lol, my transactions to SP were authorized under the assumption they would do the service they provide which is transfer the funds to the third party of my intent. I filed my claims stating the stormpay has frozen my account (which they have) and the accounts of the parties I sent the funds to and thus bringing all of our business's to a halt and causing a major drop in the amount of money that my websites used to bring in (not promoting autosurf or hyip) and that in doing so Stormpay has NOT given the service is states clearly that it would do and therefor has failed to produce the goods offered on their site (money transfered from me to a merchant in exchange for a product or service) Both my CC and Bank had no problem charging back the ACH and CC charges from stormpay. I also informed both my bank and CC that there will be no further "authorized" transactions to or from stormpay electronicly and that any future transactions are un-authorized and to be considered fraud I also stated that I had emailed and submitted multiple tickets reguarding the issue with no reply and that I have submitted a ticket informing them that they were no longer authorized.

The transactions that were charged back against stormpay I never stated were not authorized and they had no problem completing the chargeback due to failure to produce goods / service...
nuk
SuckPay just laid all their cards on the table and said *beat this hand.* They also laid-out what they plan to do: some type of *orderly*partial refunds. Well, that's interesting because since they have channelled all the money BACK to the Admins' accounts and out of the members, that will take a great feat and also take the records from all the AS's that have been frozen. Or they are just going to tell the Admins to do refunds themselves with whatever SuckPay they have in their frozen accts. That will be interesting to see how that works. I'm aqlso real interested to know how they can say that is was a fact that no admin could payout what was owed at the moment SuckPay froze accounts? Are Girsky and McConnell clairvoyant or did the AS admins give SP records on their programs?

At least you can say that Charis is still out there communicating. Her lawyer probably doesn't like it too much but the 12DP members who have been victimized in all of this surely do. It's a lot better than what the loudmouth of AlienDistrust Vinnie did: non-stop macho talk and then disappear. Or the TotalRuin guy who got huffy about the members being upset SuckPay's actions so much he forgot how to spell and then went dark also. Both sure talked tough last weekend and then went into a rabbit-hole or something this week. Wimps!

NUK
chloe2651
QUOTE(RT8888 @ Feb 12 2006, 04:06 PM) [snapback]1182348[/snapback]

BS FROM STORMPAY furious.gif

latest news from Stormpay :
February 11, 2006 Update to StormPay Customers.
11-Feb-2006 17:12
February 11, 2006

StormPay Inc. is currently suffering from DDOS (Distributed Denial of
Service) attacks which prevent StormPay from sending or receiving email
communications as well as prevents customers from being able to access their
StormPay account's through the StormPay.com website. These DDOS attacks in
no way compromise the security of your StormPay account as they are only
designed to prevent legitimate traffic access. Federal authorities are
investigating the origination of the attacks and have confirmed that they
are very close to making arrests in connection with the DDOS attacks.

We are sure that many of you are aware of the recent controversy with Charis
F. Johnson and other "Auto-Surf websites". The funds of those merchant's and
specifically Charis F. Johnson have been locked in their StormPay accounts
as investigations are ongoing into what appears to be massive illegal Ponzi
schemes. Any payments you may have received from these "Auto-Surf's, that
were still within the StormPay system have been restored back to the
accounts' of those 'Auto-Surf's where the funds are protected and preserved
in an effort to try and refund customers who may have been victims of these
programs. We can confirm that there will not be enough money available to
get everybody reimbursed but we are formulating an orderly plan to reimburse
victims to the limited extent that may be possible.

The problem we are seeing is that customers are viewing their "earnings"
from the "Auto-Surfing" websites' and believe that StormPay Inc. is holding
funds sufficient to cover those "earnings". StormPay is not holding funds
sufficient to cover the alleged "earnings" or "payments" or "payouts" that
are reflected on the Auto-Surf's website (we suspect we are holding only a
small fraction of what is being reflected as "owed" to customers on the
websites). Some customers that received a "payout" from these "Auto-Surf's
received that at the expense of somebody else who contributed to the program
but who may have never received any "payout". Consequently, the reason that
we have restored funds back to the accounts of these so called "Auto-Surfs"
that represent payments that some members received was so that we can
attempt to reimburse as many people as possible. In the usual Ponzi scheme,
if you received a payment from the program it had to have come from the
payments that another member made to the program. Therefore, if you have
received a payment, you received someone else's money. That is the problem
with a Ponzi scheme, once it collapses a lot of people get hurt. There is no
way to make everybody "whole" and most people will lose money as there
simply won't be available funds to make everybody "whole." The reason that
is, once people withdraw their "payouts" or "earnings" out of StormPay, that
represents other peoples money, and if the only money coming in is from new
"investors" (and not any other source), there is no "new" money available to
make payouts or even refunds to some members.

Assume you have a customer (customer #1) who funds their StormPay account
with $1000 and sends that money to one of these "Auto-Surf's". Then customer
#2 follows up by funding their StormPay account and thereafter sends $1200
to the same "Auto-Surf". Thereafter, the "Auto-Surf" sends $1200 to customer
#1 for their percentage of promised "return" on their original "payment" and
thereafter, the program shuts down as it did in these cases. In a Pyramid
type operation/program/scheme there is no longer any new money coming into
the program to pay back customer #2. Customer #2's payment was what was used
to pay customer #1. If this is not a Pyramid operation there should be money
to refund customer #2 but there is not in this case. StormPay Inc. cannot
allow customer #1 withdraw the money in his StormPay account (which was
received from the "Auto-Surf") into his own personal bank account, since it
is really the money belonging to customer #2. The only solution is to
reverse as many of the funds as possible so that many more victims of the
ponzi/pyramid schemes can be reimbursed their original "investment". Keep in
mind that many of the first people into the schemes have already withdrawn
the funds rightfully belonging to the later participants. Despite our best
efforts to correct the seemingly wrong doing of these "Auto-Surfs", there
simply will not be enough remaining monies to make everyone "whole". Again,
this is due to those admins and other participants of the programs' who have
withdrawn monies rightfully belonging to others. StormPay Inc. is currently
undergoing an audit, near completion, and done with our absolute and
complete cooperation, which will show that every penny of money we have ever
had control of can and has been accounted for.

StormPay does not permit the processing of payments for any illegal program
and our Terms of Service expressly prohibit the processing of any payments
for any illegal Ponzi or Pyramid scheme. Our Terms of Service do expressly
provide:

"17. Get Rich Quick" Schemes: Get Rich Quick Schemes are prohibited resell
items by StormPay. Get Rich Quick schemes include any type of
self-employment, start-up businesses, or investment opportunity where the
claims of profit or returns on investment are unrealistic or unsupported. By
law, if a business opportunity costs $500.00 USD or more, the promoter is
required to support any claims regarding earnings or profits with written
documentation.

Pyramids don't pay. StormPay Inc. and the Federal Trade Commission caution
consumers about clubs or programs that promise quick money for recruiting
new members. Don't bank on the pyramid promise that someone else will pay
you. For more information on get-rich-quick schemes, visit the FTC at
www.ftc.gov."
There are claims afloat that StormPay Inc. has performed unauthorized
charges from customers' bank accounts or credit cards. StormPay can, and
will prove to any and all investigators that all charges made were made from
each individual's own computer, or a computer from which the customer has
accessed, and was an authorized charge by that customer. StormPay Inc.
intends to investigate each and every assertion wherein it has been claimed
that StormPay Inc. initiated and unauthorized bank or credit card debit, and
will prosecute those persons, and seek recovery of, all funds wrongfully
charged back, including all costs involved to do so.

StormPay Inc. would like to take this opportunity thank it's customers for
their continued support - past, present, and future. We very much look
forward to the time in which all investigations have been completed and the
truth is revealed to the public and our valued customers. We anticipate
having access to our website in the coming hours and resuming normal
business operations.

Sincerely,

StormPay Inc.
1690 Golf Club Ln.
Clarksville, TN 37043

What a load of crap. The majority of the money in my account came from other SP members and not from auto surf earnings. Scumbags............... diablo.gif
kelvin888
perhaps only 12dp, the mammoth of the PTS industry has the financial capacity to face SP head on..
Fushia
QUOTE(sleepingdragon @ Feb 11 2006, 02:36 PM) [snapback]1179619[/snapback]

He blatantly says there is not enough money to pay everyone. Well if that is the case where is the rest of the money what did suckthieves do with it. There was always money before to pay everyone and on time. What is the matter with this guy. And if 12dp broke any of his terms who the hell is he to freeze our money. All he had to do was the complete opposite of what he did. He told Charis she can only use suckthieves as the processor. If he truly felt that she was breaching terms what he should have said was you can no longer use us as a processor for your business. Take us off your website as an upgrade option. He planned on stealing money. And he planned out how an audit from any agency should go. He had everything covered for a while.


Good comments and observations
Your right, it's not the role of SP to play the police between Autosur ptograms and the members.
SP has no right to step in and chargeback and reverse payments made to us by these Autosurfs.

SP should have had reported the "wrong-doing" of these Autosurf owners, not BECOMING THE JUDGE!





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