Well, been thinking about advertising prices and their relation to MMG.
I've been looking at all the well, what appears to be filler ads..
Haven't been seeing too many programs advertising, at least not in the expensive spots..
I think that MMG's a bit out of sync with things..
The prices, in my opinion are quite a bit inflated..
I suggest you adjust your prices so that a normal admin could afford them...
It's sad when only scamming, thieving or just the "top admins" can afford it..
Instead of seeing well junk that has no relevance to MMG like "free smileys" and whatnot that isn't even remotely appealing, why not lower the prices so that programs can actually advertise their programs instead of seeing garbage and adsense? Just a thought, and it may be wise and worth it to sacrifice the unrealistically high price tag in return for what I predict would be a dramatic increase in ad purchases

Take care
RS

Also, would just like to bring in an example or two... Just take a look at Alexa rankings and the over all state of the industry - I highly doubt the prices are in proportion to those. Back in early '06, CompactSurfing was the first to reserve all 10 slots of the 728 by 90 banner on MMG. At the time there were only 10 spots and it was THE prime space for ad viewing. It used to cost 1500 per slot per month - so 15,000 per month! Basically MMG made 45,000 off of it in the three months they were around... Now it's been increased to 15 slots for that position. Meaning... 22,500 would be needed to book the ENTIRE 728 x 90 position for one program, per month.. And this is despite the fact that less money is flowing through this arena. This is despite the fact that the value of the ad space is less considering MMG's alexa ranking is a lot lower than post 12DP days... And this is despite the fact that the space is not really "Prime" space anymore.. There are so many other ad positions that compete with its value.. MMG's becoming more saturated than before.. An example of this is the 728 x 90 after every post... Here's some supporting evidence to the decline in traffic and ad value - http://traffic.alexa.com/graph?o=l&c=1...h=400&w=700

Furthermore if you keep inflating prices, no admin can afford this stuff.. If MMG is supposed to be a venue for this arena and for new sites to get noticed, how the heck can they get noticed with these kind of prices? It's only supporting past scammers and the "select elite." It's just not fair for other sites, basically stops them from having the chance to be seen... Stunts their growth so to speak.. If MMG wants to help change the direction this arena is heading in, they would make it possible for someone like you or me, with only a few hundred bucks to advertise and get known. That is how it should be. Yes, business is business, but it is not exactly greed either. And this great desire for money is ultimately hurting MMG's profit... And the whole 90,000 or whatever members isn't the best excuse, it's about activity not sign ups ... Who knows how many people have multiple accounts.. Well I've said what needs to be said in my opinion. I pass the torch on to you.

hmmm..yeah i guess sometimes more money could be made in smaller amounts..i seem to remember a lonnnnnnnnnnnnng time ago the top banner would rotate with banner ads alot of us use to buy to promote whatever programs we were in..i even bought a couple at one time so i know they weren't very expensive...can't remember the exact price but it was reasonable enough for members to purchase simply for promoting something...of course i'm sure there weren't as many mmg members back then either..i dunno...

I may have missed a few points, but I'm running short on time, don't hesitate to restate your question if you feel I missed it.

1) The "Filler" ads pay a very competitive CPM to what we are charging our advertisers. Lowering our prices would mean forgoing revenue and would be foolish for an advertising business to do. Those "junk" smiley ads pay a $10+ CPM which is significantly higher than what we are charging our direct advertisers. Members are clicking them too, so just because you personally might not be interested in them, does not mean you can speak for all of our readers. Additionally, our CPC is lower than much of the industry-related keywords out there that you can bid on through adwords, adcenter, or yahoo.

2) Prices aren't inflating, they have been the same or in many cases higher than they are now for many months now.

3) Traffic is actually up significantly since the time of CS. There was a huge spike in traffic at the height of 12dp which significantly distorts our traffic history. Secondly, you should know better than to rely on data from alexa to show overall traffic trends, an increasingly large number of our users are not using browsers with alexa capabilities which significantly distorts the traffic data.

4) We price our ads at a premium compared to other site because we don't have banners blanketing every other pixel on the site. If you advertise on many other sites, your banner will get lost in a sea of ads.

5) Premium rates aren't only affordable to scammers. Anyone who is serious about running a program with a solid business plan should have a significant advertising budget. If people cant find a way finance a campaign, maybe their program isn't as strong as people are hyping it up to be. Likewise, we have numerous more affordable options for sites that are just starting out and are looking to get a bit more publicity.

6) Lowering our rates would make our ads more affordable to everyone, including scammers. One of the main reasons we don't offer single-day advertising campaigns like other sites is we feel it encourages people to open up a goldcoders, buy a cheap banner for a day and scam everyone.

While we appreciate your input, the data you are basing your assumptions off of is distorted at best. We monitor and review our pricing strategies and respective fill rates on a regular basis and will continue to price at a point that we feel will maximize revenue.

First of all, not speaking for all the users... I'm sure that there are some people out there who aren't bothered by them, probably focusing on posting and whatnot. It's from my experience that those I've discussed this with find them irrelevant to the forum. Well its of my opinion, that it's relative inflation, so to speak.. Obviously the industry was a lot more active, and profitable back then... Ads had more relative value, I'm sure that others would agree on that.. No matter which way you put it, the profit level just isn't here like it was used to. Also, activity in the arena as well as MMG has definitely declined. I remember seeing the online members here at 500, 750, 1000+ at times, but now I've actually seen the online members drop to under 100! The amount of active users just isn't what it used to be. Traffic *may* be up, but the amount of active users certainly is not. And as far as guests, well guests can be 'created' so to speak with things like smart hit bots and whatnot. How can traffic be increasing if the active members here are not...

And as far as the "filler" ads. It's just that I've seen less and less MMG ads being purchased lately, so obviously to fill in the gap, MMG would need something, be it affiliate links, or whatever so that they can fill those in and make some money. If this is not the case, then what do you propose the decrease in ads and need for other things is? It's difficult to remember ever seeing these before? My speculation is that the prices are just so relatively high, and the money in here has severely decreased, it's just not realistic or cost effective for admins to be spending that kind of money. As far as maximizing revenue, well that's to be expected, but I'd think that there'd be more revenue if the prices were lowered. Kinda contradictory, but if less and less ads are being purchased, it's hard to believe that there's much profit being made from them. With a lower price it's my belief that more spots would sell, ultimately resulting in more money for MMG.

Yes there is always the risk of attracting scammers, but let me use your words, in my opinion it'd maximize revenue .

"Anyone who is serious about running a program with a solid business plan should have a significant advertising budget"
Why spend 15,000 a month when the profit potential for an admin just isn't there like it was used to? Is that logical at all, solid business plan or not? It's a business, and the goal of a business is profit, so why would someone put theirself in the hole so to speak.

1) Your observations are not accurate. Less and less ads are not being purchased, the volume of ads being purchased has been relatively stable for at least 8 months right now within a standard dev of +/- 15%. The only "need" to add some of the backfill ads is to help maximize revenue. Leaving excess inventory unused is a waste, so we are working on ways to optimize it and will continue to do so.

2) Yes, guests online can be artificially inflated, just like members online can be inflated. Regardless, we have never messed around with our traffic numbers like that, and as long as I am here, we never will.

3) The profit potential is still there for people who have their act together. Most HYIPs right now seem to be run by people with very little business and marketing experience and don't have even the slightest clue on how to run an effective marketing campaign. The value of our advertising is certainly still there; we have several regular advertisers that continue to renew their campaigns month after month because they know how to create positive ROI advertising campaigns and how to convert the leads we are sending them.

4) I think your last point is a bit shortsighted. Why raise funds to start a business at all if you are going to have to start out "in the hole?" Starting a program, like any other business is an investment of labor and capital. Some people have solid plans and are well financed, while others don't. Are the well financed companies always foolish? Is a company like Nike foolish for signing $80m contracts with NBA players before they have even played a single game? Is Boeing foolish for spending well over $100m to develop their 787 Dreamliner before the concept has even flown? Are VC firms foolish for bankrolling ebusinesses like paypal or amazon.com before they have showed signs of turning a profit? I think not.

There's nothing wrong with the ads cost at MMG, but admin contradicts itself or at least that's how i see it, please do not take it bad. MMG Admin complains of raising cost of server, but admin doesn't make prices affordable for everyone, you claim that more scammers will come, yet you put annoying smily ads (and the others non HYIP related ads) lowering the quality of your forum... if you lower a bit your ads cost (or to a more reasonable price), you'll get more sponsors which will give you more revenue, you don't have to be extremist on adjusting them. I know MMG admin makes profit from forum, but negleting a reasonable price for ads will only make you struggle.

Don't mind me much, it's just a point of view.

I must admit as much as I wanted to advertise on MMG i just could justify to myself
the costs of advertising the numbers the program would have to pull just
to break even were extraordinary. I tried to negotiate but the discounts
were not attractive.

M

Well feels good to know I'm not the only one who feels this way .

A solid business plan? None of these sites are 'businesses.’ If this is a “MoneyMakerGroup” forum that is centered around HYIPs and Surfs, which are by case in point, 12dp's drama, NOT businesses that actually turn a profit. It’d be foolish for an admin to buy up ALL 15 slots in that 728 by 90 banner spot; it would cost 22, 500 USD! If this admin runs a site, for example, that offers 150% in 30 days, which would be the running time for that ad, this is what he would need:

He would need to not only recover that 22,500 USD in deposits to make up for his expenditure. And how will he recover it … through member deposits, but oops ... now he’s at a net return of 0 and he will owe his members 50% after that 30 days on top of their principal, and then another 11,750 USD to cover the 50% obligated ROI. So what is the total? 22,500 plus 22,500 plus 11,750!! In the current state of this arena, is that possible? I think not… Call them ‘businesses’ all you want, but we all know what they are and where the money comes from . How many sites can afford that with admin fees alone? Then have a PROFIT after that. Where do you honestly think the money is coming from? I would like see how distorted my data is. It’s unrealistic in this time to expect it. Look for yourself, a great admin himself just posted agreeing with such statements.

He even testified the huge costs it would take to compensate for such purchases.. I don't think that can be denied or called distorted.

Personally, I like seeing those non-Hyip related ads.

Thats not true though. For instance the members currently online. Even though the main pages says "Last 30 minutes" It really is 45 minutes if you click and view the times. You had 45 minutes there at first with the new script but changed the text to 30 minutes. Is this to deceive your advertisers, or is there another reason for the discrepency?

Don't mean to piss anyone off. I just type what I observe.

Trent

Okay... I got a nasty pop-up when i just logged in to MMG this morning... and firefox didn't block it . (new pop-up ad, I didnt see before).

The reason for the discrepancy appears to be human error on my part . The default setting when I installed the board was 45 minutes, and shortly thereafter I adjusted the setting back down to the 30 minutes we have used for years. I'm still trying to find the setting I adjusted, but it should show 30 minutes right now. That was a fairy fair observation Trent, and I'm glad you posted it.



I'd be curious to see how he "ran the numbers" without running a test campaign to generate impression statistics, CTRs and conversion ratios. Without that info, there is no possible way to accurately gauge how effective a campaign would be. If he couldn't justify the expense because his advertising budget wasn't large enough, that is an entirely different issue that has nothing to do with the value that our advertising can create.

Thanks, that was quick Just didn't want you guys being accused of something that was an error.

Trent :-)

I would be as well. Does MMG provide all this information to its advertisers? Well I'm not here to cause trouble, I simply made a suggestion based on my observations. I've noticed a decline in people buying ads, and other things are here in place of purchased ads, that's it. You're welcome to take the suggestion, you're welcome to not . Doesn't affect me, just thought I'd offer my opinions and observations and help you guys out.

And that's the case with users of other sites as well. It's some what similar to the percentile score and on an average, the Alexa ranking is reasonable to certain extent, even though it doesn't mean much in any other way.

the prices are a bit high, but lets face it, you get what you pay for...mmg gets a ton of traffic each day..and im glad the prices are not too cheap..cause then scammers would just buy 1 weeks worth of space and newbs would think just cause he has bought advertising it must be safe and legit..

Politely wondering if you saw the recent question I posed, Jacob . Also, if the ads aren't selling and less members are logged in, I'm just wondering how traffic has increased.

We provide some very basic statistics when requested through our advertising desk, but things like CTR's, and conversion ratios are entirely dependent on the merits of the program and the design of the banner being used and need to be found out through trial campaigns.




For the second time, you really haven't noticed less people buying ads. The total number of purchases has stayed roughly the same +/- 15% every month for at least the last 8 months. If you want to start measuring before that, purchases are significantly higher than they used to be. Members logged in has very little to do with total traffic. We are getting an increasingly large number of search engine referrals that send a large number of guests our way. The number of unique visitors has stayed relatively stable for the last year, even durring this "down" period with the e-gold instability issues.