are there any other benefits of having four?

can you please explain your definition of unique?

ah crap Had typed a whole reply, clicked the wrong button and *poof* gone. Sigh. Ok ... 'short' answer. What people perceive / regard it as, and what it IS ... is something different. In your truth SJ, it's a pyramid ... it's a scam. The criteria you use, makes even life a scam; most people fail. 95% retires broke (ask your government). It comes down to taking responsibility for one's life. One way to do it (the way I endorse) is through network marketing. The problem with new information is that people can only receive when they're open minded. "Who's lying?" / "Who’s Getting Rich - Who’s Not" / "Do Most People Fail?" .
I see you are in Traverus actfree? Good company, just as YTB is. As long people don't join TVI , Pyxism, Royal Cruise Matrix, and Dream Style Vacations they can't really fail as they get value-for-their-money. My definition of unique might be a figure of speech. During my due diligence didn't find an other company that had it, although have to admit that I didn't join WV at first for the travel. I came aboard through and for the excellent Personal Development (the travel was just an added bonus). Yeah I've had good training in other MLM companies I was with. But there's a difference between 'good enough' and excellent training of WorldVentures. It's as good as Anthony Robbins trainings are (if you ever been to one; you'll know what I mean), at a fraction of the price. There are always people trying to bash the enthusiasm of other people. WV is widely recognised in the press and by industry experts. The only reason why you wouldn't earn money is not because of WV, but because of the efforts and minset of the individual, and refusal of following proven systems. But even if you don't enrol into the business ... becoming a customer of DreamTrips is the best decision you could make this year!

This post has been edited by Rhyker: May 26 2010, 03:19 AM

Over 90% of all the WV people will not only fail miserably but also lose a lot of money. Had they worked an honest job during that time they would at least have gotten some fair payment for their work. In WV over 90% of all people are working for FREE! Even worse: They are paying WV so they can work for FREE. This has nothing to do with beeing open minded. That's simply a scam. It's the design of the pyramide scheme. Most people must be losers so a few can be winners. There is simply no way that everybody can be a winner. Why? Because everybody who wants to be a winner needs a pyramide with hundreds of other IRs below himself to earn money. So in order to earn money you need a lot of people below you in the pyramide who all earn less or nothing. They need to be losers so you can be a winner.

Just be honest here Rhyker: Tell people that only 5% of them can be winners while 95% must be losers.

As soon as you start telling the truth about World Ventures I will no longer have a problem with you or the programs you promote. As long as you are lying I will be back to expose those lies.

Josh,
While clearly there is a lot of truth in what you are saying,
it appears that your words are equally applicable to virtually all
network marketing compensation structures.

In fact, with a slightly different angle and wording,
you could even translate that to all other businesses!

You could even make a slightly abridged version
that would be applicable to all relationships!!

I think what would be helpful here,
is if you would consider doing two things:

1) Explain how WV specifically is geared toward the reps'
failure more than other companies, compensation plans etc.

2) Explain which companies/compensation plans are NOT geared
toward the failure of the reps.

This way we can actually learn something from your posts.

Right now, to be honest, for most of us casually reading this,
it sounds like you are flat out angry at Rhyker and WV,
but none of us are exactly sure why are you focusing there,
of all your possible options.

This forum is 90% populated with deals
that make WV look like a serious and respectable company,
in comparison.

But, the puzzling thing, is that it appears your anger at this point would
be more realistically directed to the entire network marketing industry...

as what you are saying applies pretty much across the board, it would seem.

Sure, with low cost deals, you lose less, but the principle remains the same!

Is your suggestion that:

1) No one join WV.

(Is it possible, that even though WV is not right for you,
that there are other people who feel that WV is perfect for them?
Can any of us dictate what is correct and appropriate for others?)

2) No one join ANY network marketing company.

(Since most people will not create success in this industry,
is it even worth trying?)

3) Because most people fail in most things in life,
even after spending a lot of time, energy, thought and action...

that we should all just give up cause 95% are not
going to make it in life anyway?!

Should I NOT approach that beautiful woman I saw
cause the chances are so miniscule that we are going
to become friends, lovers, marriage partners?

There is definitely HUGE value in "cleaning house" in our industry,
and exposing the specific companies that have compensation plans
that are skewed for the reps to fail, and to showcase those companies
that are doing it right.

This is the value of these forums, and how we all learn.

I personally agree with a lot of what you are saying, in a GENERALIZED way
about this industry, and I think there is EXTREME VALUE
in your words...

if they were put in a non attacking form,
clarified specifically why of the hundreds of companies out there
you feel World Ventures is the "worst",
and enlighten us as to which companies are doing it right,
then it would be very helpful for everyone reading this.

We all are trying to learn something, to get some value from this!!

Without these aspects, I do not believe you are having the desired effect.

This is an open forum. We are free to share out throughts.

When they are constructive (which can also mean constructively
deconstructing bogus companies etc.)! there is value.

Do you feel the entire industry, without exception, is populated
by "pyrmaids", "scams" etc.

or are there any jewels of evolved companies that are doing it right
(or at least going in the right direction/less evil?)

Thanks for considering my honest, unbiased feedback.

I wish both of you the utmost in success,
and more importantly...

Peace of mind.

We are all responsible for our own choices.

I like to respect others' choices as well,
as long as they don't infringe upon my own.

David


PS. Remember...while this conversation is going on, you are showing yourself
as a mentor and leader in this industry, even if it means exposing the dark side.

In order to create respect and positive outcomes from your post,
I truly recommend you also reveal the "bright side" of things, the real opportunities
that shine out from the "sea of scams" etc.

Is there even ONE company in this industry that you feel is worthy of our consideration??

Let us know!!

This post has been edited by dreamlife: May 26 2010, 04:50 AM

I will be brief since I don't have much time right now.

That's true. Most MLM companies are pyramide schemes that profit from a huge failure rate.


No, because most businesses are not dependent on a high failure rate. A good baker can be successful without having another 20 failing. The dependency on failure is a MLM (pyramide scheme) specific problem.


No. I can't see how that would be possible.


I don't plan on doing either since I never claimed WV is worse than other MLM "opportunities".


I don't focus here. I'm active in multiple other threads aswell. I'm not angry at Rhyker. I already told you that so please stop claiming nonsense.


True, but that doesn't mean WV is a serious and respectable company. It is a pyramid scheme that needs 95% losers to make 5% winners.

Your posts are simply too long to really answer all your questions. Let me just clarify a couple of points:

1. World Ventures like most (all?) MLMs is dependent on a very high failure rate. Other businesses are not. To be a successful baker you don't need 20 failed bakers in a pyramide below you. That's the big difference

2. I'm not here to compare World Ventures to other MLMs. I'm here to warn people about this specific MLM and to expose the lies and BS the cheerleaders tell you so you have a chance to make an informed decision. Of course I hope there are other decent people here that do the same thing in other threds with other programs. But I simply don't have the time to expose all the scams here that need to be exposed.

3. I'm not here to help people make money in any online program or MLM. Therefore I'm not promoting any programs here. I'm here to help people not to lose money in such programs.

4. I do not think that the whole industry of online investments is populated by scams and pyramid schemes. I know this for a fact. So does everyone who has been around in this forum for a while. Just have a look at all the scams in the closed&inactive sections.

This post has been edited by SeriousJosh: May 26 2010, 05:23 AM

Thanks for the replies.

I was thinking the other day,
that if someone wanted to get a massive wake up call
about this industry...

all they need to do is browse through the dozens of pages
in the closed/inactive section.

The insights and realizations
that would come from those who do that
could be a section in itself!

This post has been edited by dreamlife: May 26 2010, 05:47 AM

i wholeheartedly concur.

Hmm I'm not going into the MLM discussion, already gave a tonload of resources on that, and will finish with one last classic (outlining the baker example) of Robert Kiyosaki: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9n_4bodWlc
A smart baker would launch a franchising chain btw. MLM is the next step; combination of franchising and direct sales.

If you don't have time to expose all scams, wouldn't it be smart to start promoting something that you can positively change people lives with? Cause, as written before (in a different threat) ... although you probably have all the best intentions in the world ... you are basically preventing people from making progression. Don't narrow yourself in 'lack prevention' thinking, cause that's exactly what you will attract. Entering the MLM as an industry is a blessing, if I would be religious I would say working with WorldVentures is a gift from god.

When anyone wants me to admit to information I distributed myself, and did outline what happens to most people ... and then after a summary of interesting facts ... you want me to admit to it? Sure ... pretty pointless, but sure. When you want to warn people about this specific MLM just because I'm in it (it ain't coincidence you suddenly joined the discussion)? Then hmm good luck with that Warn about MLM industry in general? We should create a separate threat for that, as that's offtopic in this threat. If one doesn't understand MLM, then there's no need to explain the differences with a pyramid or go into the company. Become a customer and use the product. The rest comes naturally.

Oh btw when I talk about "you", I'm not aiming at SJ specifically. A lot of people have the same kind of ehm hehe hmm "stinking thinking"; doesn't serve themselves or anyone around them. Help yourself, before trying to help others; buy Napoleon Hill - Think & Grow rich.

update ... don't just buy it; READ it too!

This post has been edited by Rhyker: May 26 2010, 06:45 PM

MLM has absolutely nothing to do with franchising. In franchising too you are not dependent on other peoples failure. You can be successful without needing 20 others below you in the pyramide to fail. Dependency on failure is the big difference. Please try to understand that already.


Exactly. That's why I promote not to participate in scams. That changes the lives of people in a positive way since they are not losing their money and feel ashamed about it.
Why do you lie to people again? Working with WorldVentures will be a big failure for 95% of all the people here. They will work hard and making little to no money. Those are the facts. Remember? You provided them yourself: 70% get nothing at all. 85% get less then 114 dollar a whole YEAR. Is that really a gift from god? Because it sounds more like a scam to me.


Nice! You just admitted to the fact that 95% of all people must fail in World Venture so 5% can be successful. Thank you for your honesty Rhyker!
And I still just want to warn about this specific MLM. Even though many arguments and facts apply to other MLMs aswell.


You are wrong again. My thinking serves me very well. Look at all the people in this forum pissing their money away in obvious scams. Not me. I save a lot of money just by beeing reasonable. You are such a loser yourself: You invested money in an obvious scam and will certainly lose it. (see the other thread Rhyker is acitve in the Non HYIP section). In less than 2 month it will be a fact that Rhyker promoted an obvious RPP scam there. I wonder what that does to your credibility in this forum.

This post has been edited by SeriousJosh: May 27 2010, 03:07 AM

And again you go into personal accusation, while you said you wouldn't do that. A loser eh? I've never called anybody that. Rhyker -- me -- is actually active or has been active in all sections of MMG. Including manual forex trading. I've worked with HYIP for 4 years, earned more then I lost. I talk from experience, not from theory.

It's awesome you are not losing money, but it's not good when you start calling things scams when they're not. The reason why it sounds like a scam to you is simple ... you look at the investment to become a representative, you look at the income disclosure statement ... see poor returns. And thus the conclusion is made. WorldVentures is NOT an investment company, they are into travel. That's the product everyone buys.

Regarding franchising ... exactly. By buying oneself into the organisation and following a system for 4-5 years, you can make a nice little income. MLM is basically a mini franchise ... you buy the into the organisation (become a rep / distributor), you become your own first customer and then you distribute ... in case of WorldVentures ... DreamTrips memberships to other people. Even if you don't recruit ANYONE into your business, you can still becoming hugely succesful by only working with customers .. cause you don't have to depend on other people's failures. That industry is called -- strictly speaking -- direct sales. Now ... I gave like 6 independent video resources that go into the matter a whole lot deeper. I suggest you watch them, before you post something. I simply don't have time to for that kind of discussions.

Well: Losing money in QCoopers makes you a loser. That's just a fact as we will soon find out. But since you started the personal attacks anyway ("stinking thinking") I don't feel bad about that remark.

If you made money with HYIPs (I don't believe you btw.) then I wonder why you didn't stick to it. Who would not make money without working for it? Or were you on the scammer/admin side of the HYIP maybe?


That's exactly what makes it even worse!!! If WV was an investment company where I didn't have to work and just hope for some returns on my small investment then I could live with bad or no returns. At least I wouldn't have wasted my time. But here 85% actually WORK for less than 114 dollars a year! You said it yourself: This is HARD WORK. And yet most people see absolutely no money for their work. That's why I regard this to be a scam. 95% need to fail so that 5% can be winners.


You are still wrong. An MLM is dependent on failure. You can only be successful if you have a pyramide of losers below you. Sad but true. You simply can't be successful without the 95% losers below you in the pyramide. Have you watched the promotion videos of WV? Didn't they explain in detail how many IR's you need in your right and left "team" to get certain rewards? The only way you will ever make money in WV is by building up your own pyramide.

Please don't lie to us by telling otherwise. How much do they pay you for a normal DreamTrip membership? Lousy 20 bucks? How many such DreamTrip memberships for 20 bucks do you think you can sell per month?

Franchises are basically your own small business. You are not dependent on others to fail. You don't need a pyramide of losers below you to support you. You don't have to recruite anyone.That's the big difference. You still don't get it.

Question: Can you please post a link to the detailed compensation plan? I couldn't find it among your links but I would really be interested how many DreamTrip Memberships I would need to sell per month to make a living as a WV travel agent. (Without having to recruite anyone). Thank you!

This post has been edited by SeriousJosh: May 27 2010, 03:31 PM

So when you invest money and lose it, you can live with that? That's incoherent with your suggestions. And you don't have to believe me regarding HYIP results, you can read it on my blog, including the reason why I started with them (was looking for Forex autotrading about hmm 2-3 years ago) and why I stopped pursuing it. I've never been on the admin side of HYIP, but did run monitors and such. Was a huge waste of time, but a valuable learning experience never the less. I found my passion in WorldVentures. I love this company, what it does and what it can do for people.

I can't be wrong, cause I'm walking my talk. It's like watching a soccer match and think you can do it better without any training, experience or coaching. You're not on the playing field. Which is ok ... as you have chosen not to be, but don't act as if you are master in a subject when you have no authority. For the last time ... Pyramids are dependent on failure, network marketing is depedent on sales of products (just like a franchise or any traditional business).

I'm hesitant about giving people the detailed compensation plan. Not because we have something to hide (as it's on the bottom right of the worldventures.biz website). However it's 28 pages of very thorough & tough information to go through and really doesn't give much overview nor insight (for most people). If I were you I would either stick to the 1 page summary OR ... which is without a shadow of doubt the best way ... watch Step2 on WorldVentures.biz.

Let's make it practical. What's your definition of "to make a living" as in amount per month? So I can break it down for you. P.S. we are not "travel agents", well at least not in Europe.

update: whoops forgot to add the link to the compplan summary

This post has been edited by Rhyker: May 28 2010, 01:14 PM

Just a quick summary ... in case people are just joining this thread ;-) Well it's everything but quick, as I'm known to be thorough :-D ... MOST PEOPLE just need to watch the vids.

Some people need to know everything.

This impressive company has ethical ownership with extensive MLM experience and an executive staff that's hard to match. WorldVentures also has a very low start up cost and a very low distributor attrition rate (MLM industry Attrition rate average is 60% to 70%), as well as, offerring a very low monthly overhead. WorldVentures easily reached the top of my list for the following reasons:

# FEATURED IN 3 USA MAGAZINES: SUCCESS FROM HOME (2x ... second time this July 2010!) + YOUR BUSINESS AT HOME ... which are distributed through Barnes & Noble, and other major newspaper and magazine outlets.
# Better Business Bureau: A- RATING
# Why Is WorldVentures Seeing 100% Growth in This Economy: http://www.wvskyrockets.com
# Dr. Charles King selected WorldVentures as one of his Top 10 MLM Industry Growth Picks for 2009. Dr. King is one of the most respected authorities on the MLM industry, as well as, co-author of "Wave 3", as well as, co-author of the very well known "Brilliant Compensation" video. Dr. King teaches the only fully accredited university level MLM course. A favorite MLM authority for the Wall Street Journal and FTC.
# Exceptional 4 year track record - Since launching in late 2005, generating $15,000,000 (15 Million), in sales 2006. In 2007 the company jumped to $50,000,000 (50 Million), in sales and WorldVentures broke the $100,000,000 (100 Million) sales mark for 2008. Companies that have broken 100 Million sales mark in only 3 years, have gone on to become giants within the MLM industry. Timing Is Everything & Now's The Time!
# Company Growth & International Expansion - Success University Joins WorldVentures - This move further expands our emphasis on leadership development amongst our 100,000 plus LTC's. WorldVentures opened for business in the United States in 2005 and has since expanded into the United Kingdom (UK), Singapore, South Africa, Israel, Kenya, Botswana, Germany & Cyprus. We will soon be opening additional international markets as we continue our rapid expansion around the world.
- Recognized Member IATA, ASTA, ARC & CLIA - This is a "Real" travel company, with IATAN certification courses available for individuals wishing to become Booking Travel Agents; USA only (70% Commissions), or Fully Accredited IATAN Travel Agents (80% Commissions)
- .... etc. etc. etc.

If you're wondering why we're so hot on a travel company / product, it's really very simple and purely mathematically driven for top dollar earnings and probability of success. First, the "juice wars" are out of control within the MLM industry and attrition rates amongst Juice / nutrition companies are sky rocketing. If your company's autoship is $100.00 or more per month, it's way to expensive for monthly hits on the average person(s) credit card in this economy. Demand.... 43 cents of every dollar processed online is spent on travel, nothing else comes close to peoples interest in either taking a cruise or traveling to an exotic location, so they're still buying! WorldVentures "DreamTrips" membership program delivers a knockout punch and it offers deeply discounted exotic travel packages and has already developed a big fan base in our current depressed economy.

This post has been edited by Rhyker: May 29 2010, 07:21 PM

MLM companies are not dependent on the failure rate of of the reps, in fact it's quite the opposite. What you are describing is a Ponzi Scheme.

MLM companies pay commissions on a percentage of PROFIT from sale of a product. In order for any MLM company to exist it must meet those requirements to avoid prosecution from the AG and SEC.

The reason most people in network marketing fail is not because of the company, it's because of a few things.

1. They are new to direct sale principles and therefore must learn the industry to understand what motivates other people.

2. They are just outright lazy

3. They don't stay with it long enough

All of the "Big Dogs" in the industry started just like everyone else. People look down on network marketing because they don't truly understand it, but the principle behind it is spreading the wealth. I would rather be with a network marketing company and getting a check then with a "brick and mortar" company with them sending a percentage of their profits to advertising and endorsements any day of the week.

That's pure BS. What I'm writing in this thread has nothing to do with a Ponzi scheme. All MLM companies I know are dependent on failure. It is not possible to make real money without building your own sales pyramide (recruiting) as fast as possible. People telling you otherwise are liars.

The three points you mentioned are just what MLM shills are telling people. But it is not true. Let me make a simple example: Let's say you take all the people out of the MLM company who are not making money for themselfs (95%) and restart the company with only the 5% winners. They have all proven that they can make money in the MLM right? So they are not new, they are not lazy and they were in the business long enough.

In the new Winners-MLM company there will still be 95% losers and only 5% winners. You can deny it as long as you want. People not knowing enough or beeing lazy has absolutely nothing to do with it. It's the pyramide system that only allows the top 5% to be winners. All the others below them in the pyramide need to be losers. Nothing is ever going to change that fact.

In every other company (not MLM) in the world people are paid for their work. Nobody works for free. There might be some who earn more than others but they all make money. Not so in the MLM company. As we have seen 70% of all WV members are not making money at all. 85% are making less than 114 dollars a year (which is almost nothing). Those people are working for free! Even worse: They pay a huge amount of money in monthly fees so the top 5% of the company can be winners. And the truth is: Only because 85% are making next to nothing while paying a lot of monthly fees the top 5% can earn big money. Without the 85% suckers it would not be possible for them to make money. That's why it is a FACT that MLMs are dependent on failure. Nothing is ever going to change that.

@Rhyker
Let's say I wanted to make 1000 Euro a month with WV. How many DreamTrip memberships would I have to sell per month? Remember: I do not want to recruite!

This post has been edited by SeriousJosh: Jun 1 2010, 03:11 PM