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Worldventures - Worldventures.biz, Search up to200 travel websites at once.
SeriousJosh
post May 20 2010, 11:35 PM
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QUOTE (dreamlife @ May 20 2010, 05:27 PM) *
OMG! shock1.gif

Rhyker,
Any comments on this? What has been your experience
and your team members experiences all this time??


Rhyker is european. World Ventures was not active in europe so far. They are planning to expand to europe this summer and recruiting has just started. That's probably the reason why he dug up this old thread. He wants to get in early because he knows that only the top 5% of the pyramide actually get good money. 70% will not get anything at all. They will only pay the monthly fee. The remaining 25% in between will have to work very hard for very little income. They will struggle every month to get by.
I don't know why he writes that he joined June last year. But he also claimed that he joined another company many years ago when that company actually only existed 2 years wink.gif. Maybe he thinks that makes it look like a long term, reliable thing to the reader.

This post has been edited by SeriousJosh: May 20 2010, 11:49 PM
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Rhyker
post May 24 2010, 06:37 AM
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Besides the fact that you seem to have a personal vendetta against me to proof me wrong on anything SeriousJosh wink.gif You are dead wrong (again).

They are not planning to open in Europe, they ARE open ... as of 1st of June 2009, not in all countries though due to strict regulations in the travel industry. What's opening this summer (and is currently in prelaunch) is Germany. Maybe you got confused that Germany is the whole of Europe somehow wink.gif Before 1st of June 2009 it was an USA soil based company. That's why I asked to reopen this thread, so you guys are in the know instead of the mystery why no other MMG member started something yearsss ago, cause that's a question I would have ...

Regarding when I joined, I have pictures and videos on my facebook page to back that up. And opposed to many other anonymous members, I'm here in the open, have nothing to hide.

Don't make a fool of yourself by posting googled BS links with sceptical people that never tried anything in life or failed at the first attempt. Networkmarketing is a business model, not a get quick rich scheme. It takes hard work, just like a job or any conventional business. WorldVentures is the only network marketing company that I know of that publishes the income disclosure statement (PDF). That's the answer to the misinterpreted 'tax question'. We don't promise you gold and we are open about it.

The problem is ... most people don't know the distinct the differences between illegal pyramidschemes = pyramidgame (you can find a ton of those on this forum) and legal networkmarketing. Even I felt a short while for TVI (which is a scam).

When you are new to this industry (as SeriousJosh obviously is or has his share of bad experiences). Checkout sites like whynowisthetime.com or thetruthaboutworldventures.com. More independent ones checkoutthebiz.com and/or brilliantcompensation and/or buy a tonload of books on Amazon. Prefer Google? Search YouTube (for example) why Donald Trump, Richard Branson, Robert Kiyosaki, Bill Clinton, Charles King endorse this industry that has come of age and does $100 billion annually. The cool thing about this industry is that you don't have to attend college for 4 years to do it or become a master before you can do it. The bad thing = the good thing ;-) without somebody teaching you how do it (who has success him-/herself), it's going to be very tough and you probably won't be successful. That's why it's very important to join a competent team.

WorldVentures has leaders aboard like myself, but also worldfamous speakers, coaches, authors, business people like ... Kalpesh Patel, Nancy LieberMan, Eric Allen, Peter Powderham, Matt Morris, Johnny Wimbrey and countless others (that I haven't met yet or heard about). Google on these people. Oh ... next to all present partners worldventures just closed a partnership with Richard Branson's company "Virgin Limited Edition" last month. Talking about credibility.

Sceptical is good though, just means you have questions that need answering. Mind though -- that for most people -- we are talking about a $360 decision to join, but yes it can be your million dollar business. I encourage everybody to do as much research as you want to get out of it in money-wise.

But let me make you a promise ... cause I was still 'cocky' while in the company for months. When you haven't been to a monthly held regional or Acceleration training event you don't have a clue what sets WorldVentures apart from ALL other networkmarketing companies regarding training. Regarding the value of the DreamTrips ... again ... people look at the prices and the resorts, and pretend to be 'know alls' or suffer from 'paralysis by analysis'. Just become a DreamTrips member only, book a trip or 2, and you'll find it was the best decision you ever made. Don't like? Just cancel the membership. No dodgy cancellation procedures, just login and press cancel or email support, we only want happy customers. 90% retention rate doesn't lie.

People that just come in to make a bunch of money without using the product or going to training? Simply drop out over time. Had people like that, and I'm absolutely sure I will have quite a few of those in the future again (especially from the 'cold market'). Success in any networkmarketing business depends on how teachable, trainable and coachable you are. When you aren't any of those 3? You're likely to fail. Human nature. If it was easy everybody would do it, and nobody would have jobs. It's simple to learn how to do it right, but not easy. Going after the big money? Prepare for a huge emotional rollercoaster ... but that's the cool thing about this business. You start because of the money, travel, fun, etc. but while going through the process you are on a personal journey as well. Or ... you can just become a customer, without ever being in the business of course.

The biggest thing other networmarketing in potions, lotions, pills, etc. rave about are incentives; you make those extra sales, go flatout to qualify, selling more products people don't need or can't afford ... and woohooo you can go on a holiday! In WorldVentures the product you market basically IS the incentive of the other company (350 trips on a rolling callender at wholesale pricing). How much better can get it?! They are constantly innovating ... it is really REALLY amazingly insane cool.

Yeah I'm enjoying an increasingly abundant lifestyle cause I leverage my income streams through investments as well, but downside of investments is that you cannot invest what you cannot afford to lose, and it proves to be pretty tough to do proper due dilligence most of the time.

Most people can't lose a lot right now, so what's your plan B? Mine ... well I think you got it by now tongue4.gif

update: crap ... why are my responses always SO LONG ... LOL. Enthusiasm ... brrr biggrin.gif rolleyes.gif A few minutes more and you could have watched the entire presentation and actually have signed up already.

This post has been edited by Rhyker: May 24 2010, 06:54 AM


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dreamlife
post May 24 2010, 07:38 AM
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This response from Rhyker is PACKED with real expereience, network marketing wisdom,
and good old common sense.

There is so much good insight in this post in fact,
I feel it should be required reading for everyone,
no matter what company you are in!

This is the kind of honesty and truth that we need more of
in this industry, imo.

Thanks for such quality post! smile.gif

David

This post has been edited by dreamlife: May 24 2010, 07:39 AM
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SeriousJosh
post May 24 2010, 08:35 AM
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I will not answer to all the BS Rhyker writes down in his statement.

I will simply correct some claims Rhyker makes:

1. I never said you can't make any money in a pyramide scheme such as World Ventures. The truth is though, that only the top 5 percent in the scheme do make money. And only very few will make millions. 95% of all the people joining World Ventures will make littel to no money in it. They will simply pay their monthly fee and work their asses off trying to get more people to sign up. After a couple of month they will simply give up having paid a lot of money in monthly fees and not getting any money in return. That's the normal case. That's what most of you WV members will experience when you sign up and there is nothing to be ashamed about. It is not your fault. The system is designed this way. Most of you need to be losers so a few can be winners. You don't belive me? Sign up and you will soon find out that I'm right!

2. I don't have a personal vendetta against Rhyker. He simply keeps telling people that I don't know what I'm talking about. That's just not true. I know exactly what I'm talking about and that's why I keep warning people not to lose their money in scams such as WV and others promoted here by Rhyker and other cheerleaders and shills.

3. If you want to make money in a MLM like WV you need a lot of people joining the business under you (building up your pyramide). Naturally you will soon run out of family and friends you can get to sign up. That's when it becomes really hard to find new members and you won't make any money anymore. Of course the risk is considerable that your friends won't talk to you anymore because you brought them into this scam and they lost money.

4. Don't expect to make money without having to work very hard for it! As you learned in point 3. you need a big number of new members every month to make money. This is very hard work and you will probably need your own promotion website like Rhyker. You need to find people in forums, on the street, where you work. All of that will cost you a lot of time and efford. If you fail (and most people fail, make no mistake about that) you will have wasted a lot of money while having worked very hard for no or little return. That will make you feel like a loser even though it is not really your fault. It's just the design of the system (pyramide).

If you know all of that and are ok with it, then there is no reason not to join WV. I wish you luck!
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Rhyker
post May 24 2010, 05:19 PM
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Dreamlife/david> thx man! Appreciate it!

SeriousJosh> Point 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 ... all cover the typical misconceptions about the netwerkmarketing industry. The system you are referring to is a pyramid game ... not MLM. I gave the information in the previous post (that's why I was so thorough cause saw it coming). You are the type of person which I described already; untrainable, unteachable and uncoachable. You would probably excel in a job, but entrepreneurial lifestyle definitely ain't for you.

Indirect answer to your point 3 and 4. WV has something extremely unique (compared to other MLMs). It's called the 'get-4-pay-no-more'. Get 4 customers and your montly fees are waved. Are you both a business rep and a customer? Then you also earned your signup fee back as well. After that everything is pure profit ...

I'm not 'recruiting souls', I'm helping people make a positive difference/shift in their lives.

This post has been edited by Rhyker: May 24 2010, 05:46 PM


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actfree
post May 24 2010, 08:32 PM
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QUOTE (Rhyker @ May 24 2010, 06:19 PM) *
Indirect answer to your point 3 and 4. WV has something extremely unique (compared to other MLMs). It's called the 'get-4-pay-no-more'. Get 4 customers and your montly fees are waved. Are you both a business rep and a customer? Then you also earned your signup fee back as well. After that everything is pure profit ...


Are you saying WV is extremely unique because of the number 4? Because I know two other companies that waive the monthly fee when you get 5, as well as earning more than the signup fee back..


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dreamlife
post May 25 2010, 12:48 AM
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QUOTE (SeriousJosh @ May 24 2010, 12:35 PM) *
I will not answer to all the BS Rhyker writes down in his statement.

I will simply correct some claims Rhyker makes:

1. I never said you can't make any money in a pyramide scheme such as World Ventures. The truth is though, that only the top 5 percent in the scheme do make money. And only very few will make millions. 95% of all the people joining World Ventures will make littel to no money in it. They will simply pay their monthly fee and work their asses off trying to get more people to sign up. After a couple of month they will simply give up having paid a lot of money in monthly fees and not getting any money in return. That's the normal case. That's what most of you WV members will experience when you sign up and there is nothing to be ashamed about. It is not your fault. The system is designed this way. Most of you need to be losers so a few can be winners. You don't belive me? Sign up and you will soon find out that I'm right!

2. I don't have a personal vendetta against Rhyker. He simply keeps telling people that I don't know what I'm talking about. That's just not true. I know exactly what I'm talking about and that's why I keep warning people not to lose their money in scams such as WV and others promoted here by Rhyker and other cheerleaders and shills.

3. If you want to make money in a MLM like WV you need a lot of people joining the business under you (building up your pyramide). Naturally you will soon run out of family and friends you can get to sign up. That's when it becomes really hard to find new members and you won't make any money anymore. Of course the risk is considerable that your friends won't talk to you anymore because you brought them into this scam and they lost money.

4. Don't expect to make money without having to work very hard for it! As you learned in point 3. you need a big number of new members every month to make money. This is very hard work and you will probably need your own promotion website like Rhyker. You need to find people in forums, on the street, where you work. All of that will cost you a lot of time and efford. If you fail (and most people fail, make no mistake about that) you will have wasted a lot of money while having worked very hard for no or little return. That will make you feel like a loser even though it is not really your fault. It's just the design of the system (pyramide).

If you know all of that and are ok with it, then there is no reason not to join WV. I wish you luck!



Ok, first off, I want to be clear: I have no previous connection, positive or negative, to either Rhyker or SeriousJosh, and am completely nuetral, and a bystander. Nothing personal here at all, I don't know either one of these people. Also, I am not in WV or have anything to do with them. I know people who are, but it wasn't my thing when I checked it out. I am totally nuetral on the company, nothing negative. I know quality networkers focused there, but that's it.

My responses to the post above:


1) You seem to be talking about your view of the network marketing industry as a whole, not specifically WV here. You seem to be talking about network marketing compensation plans in a general way, and how they are slanted for the co. and not the distributors. I can see that in an overall way, that is most definitely the case! To focus that worthwhile angst re: the state of network marketing comp. plans on WV though, does not seem realistic or fair.

Considering that 90% or more of the "deals" on this site are true money games, "pyramids" in fact, where there is no real product, and that 90% or more of the programs on this forum will be long long gone 6 months or a year from now, says a lot. I do not think WV falls into that category of the 90%, in that it is not a here today gone tomorrow money game, and will most probably be here a long time into the future.

What you are describing here has HUGE validity on the state of the industry. It would appear you hate the idea of network marketing, or maybe it is just the comp. plans that are skewed to screw reps, and the general flood of money games and "pyramids" etc. But to focus that generalized anger on WV and Rhker does not make sense or sound like an intelligent arugement to innocent bystanders, imo.


2) You are angry with Rhyker, that is how it appears, or projecting your anger there anyway. There are hundreds of programs on this forum. The vast vast majority of them have no real product, cheap sites, are here today/gone tomorrow pyramid-like money games, but are you on those forums exposing all that? I don't know, I don't read those threads too much, but I doubt it. Honestly, because of this fact, it puts your arguement, imo, in serious question. Because WV falls into the category of respectable, proven co.'s weather you like them, their comp. plan, Rhyker or not! They are of the few % that are a real company, with a proven track record. Why not take your truthful arguement (and there is most CERTAINLY truth and reality in what you are saying), and focus it on the 90% + of total outright scams, cheeseball short term/waste of time deals, etc. rather than a multi million dollar company that has a good measure of success and track record. (Regardless if the comp. plan is the best or not, in your opninion).


3) What you are stating here is true, but so generalized about the downfall of much of our industry, that to focus it on WV is really disingenious, imo.

4) This again, is a "half filled cup" viewpoint of network marketing. In other words: while is VERY truthful, and without a question, a very important, and valuable, and actual fact about our industry, it is taking an extremely, and apparently exclusively negative viewpoint. That kind of viewpoint can be overlayed on ANYTHING in life, seeing ONLY the bad, focusing on ONLY the negative, etc. There are ALWAYS two sides to the story, and you are telling ONE of them only. (Seeing the industry through jaded eyes).

Your words are undoubtedly VERY true, but to shoot them at Rhyker and WV makes no sense at all, considering this is a quality co. out of hundreds of scams and short term deals, it DOES appear you have a personal thing with Rhyker, otherwise, what's your point!?!?!?

Are you sharing your truth with the 90% of deals which don't even hold a candle to WV on this forum?

If not, why not?!?!? (There are enough to keep you busy for months before before WV would be next in your expose').

You are on a mission, to wake people up. Personally, I think that vision you have has EXTREME value!
What you are saying has a lot of truth to it, in a LOT of situations, with a LOT of "companies" that pop up.

Considering all the factors, I would not include WV in the first 90% of companies to take this very valid, generalized frustration out on.

And I most certainly would not focus my attention on Rhyker, to be honest. He is representing a co. EASILY in the top 10% of network marketing co.'s. Why not FIRST focus on the 90% of full on looser deals first?!?!?

Quite frankly, if you want to edify yourself, and not otherwise, I would consider taking your campaign to the threads of money games, scams, cheap @ss deals, real pyramids etc on this forum, and help CLEAN UP OUR INDUSTRY!!!

Do something good with your valid "angst" rather than try to rip good people and decent co.s down.

You have real work to do, please focus your worthy perspective in responsible ways that really will positively impact people's thinking...like guide people to think more carefully about their choices, to understand the importance of being in a product/market driven co., and not a dead end deal...

and to give POSITIVE options that fit into what YOU believe are good comp. plan/company models etc.

It will do all of us good. There is a LOT of value and wisdom and truth in what you are saying, it is just, imo, misdirected here.


Peace out.
Thanks for listening!


David
peace.gif


PS. I wish you both well.

This post has been edited by mmgcjm: May 25 2010, 02:42 AM
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SeriousJosh
post May 25 2010, 02:40 AM
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I'll not waste my time responding to all the BS and psychological nonsense again. I will just sum up the most important points:

This is going to happen to at least 90% of you guys if you sign up with World Ventures:

1. You will be working very hard for little to no return.
2. You will eventually give up after a couple of month having paid a lot of initial and monthly fees (several hundred Euro)
3. You will feel like a loser because you failed in becoming rich with WV. Especially after the shills and cheereaders here told you it is all so easy.
4. Your friends and family who you persuaded to join World Ventures probably won't talk to you anymore because they failed too and lost their money in WV.

The remaining 10% of you will make a little money in the pyramid scheme. Most of you will still have to work hard for it. But don't expect millions! Only a hand full of people actually make millions in this scheme and those are the initiators of the scheme at the top of the pyramide.
A realistical estimate would be that only 3% to 4% of you will be able to make a living with World Ventures while the company exists. And I would not bet on this company beeing around in another 5 years.

If you decide to join WV please report back about your experiences. Good luck to you!

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Rhyker
post May 25 2010, 03:18 AM
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QUOTE (actfree @ May 25 2010, 05:32 AM) *
Are you saying WV is extremely unique because of the number 4? Because I know two other companies that waive the monthly fee when you get 5, as well as earning more than the signup fee back..


Well 5 is 1 higher then 4. I know of many companies where when you get X customers you get Y income and thus you are breakeven, but you still have to pay your membershipfees. WV thinks along with the rep / distributor and unites those 2 transactions for you; awesome service.

I don't recommend people to get started because of the 4-pay-no-more, but dig into the total package. ;-) It's the add up of all the facts, tools, systems, that make it what it is out of the 1000s MLM companies; unique.

One of the youngest company to be featured in the DSA top100 after only 3 years, and receive their third endorsement in a respected home based business magazine (the July 2010 edition of Success From Home, spotlighting WorldVentures. It will on newsstands nationwide at Borders, Barnes & Noble, and Books-a-Million the first week of June)



This post has been edited by Rhyker: May 25 2010, 03:21 AM


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Rhyker
post May 25 2010, 03:48 AM
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SJ ... I understand you have concerns. When WE DO take the time to answer them for you, and you discard them as BS or 'psycholigal nonsense', no wonder you then keep up summing up the same points of concern over and over again. The facts, number, press ... don't lie to you. Do the research. Don't waste our time, when you refuse to do your part.

This post has been edited by Rhyker: May 25 2010, 03:58 AM


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SeriousJosh
post May 25 2010, 05:28 AM
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QUOTE (Rhyker @ May 25 2010, 12:48 PM) *
SJ ... I understand you have concerns. When WE DO take the time to answer them for you, and you discard them as BS or 'psycholigal nonsense', no wonder you then keep up summing up the same points of concern over and over again. The facts, number, press ... don't lie to you. Do the research. Don't waste our time, when you refuse to do your part.

Unlike you I'm not paid to post here. I'm not a member of World Ventures. I don't need to persuade more people in joining this pyramide scheme to make money for myself. That's why I don't waste my time countering your BS. I just recomment people to do their own research. Always remember the 70% failure rate. This number is not from me. You can read it in the official report from World Ventures Rhyker provided a link to.

In fact let's have a close look at all the facts this very interesting document contains:

"During the fiscal year 2008, 29.8% of all Independent Representatives (“IRs”) earned a commission oroverride, while 70.2% did not."

This means that 70.2% of all World Venture members (IRs) didn't get a single cent in all 2008. Of course they were paying their monthly fees during this time. This is several hundred dollars they lost. They even worked for World Venture during this time just not getting enough people to sign up to earn something. So basically those 70% of all IRs worked for WV for free while even paying them money in monthly fees. Those are the total losers and suckers among the World Ventures salesmen.

"The average annual commission or override earnings of that group of IRs who earned a commission or override was$1274.27, and the median was $114.60."

This numbers are especially interesting: We have already learned that 70.2% of all World Ventures members/IRs didnt get ANYTHING in all 2008. Now this numbers only include those IRs who did get anything. This numbers tell us in fact that half of those who got anything in 2008 received less than 114 dollars in the whole year!
So what we know so far is that 70.2% of all IR's didn't get anything at all. Then there are 14.9 % who received less than 114 dollars in all 2008.

Bottom line so far: 85.1% of all members/IR of World Ventures got less than 114 dollars in all 2008! Most of them got nothing at all.

Up to this point those are pure facts published by World Ventures themselfes.

Now please remember that the initial and monthly fee are several hundred dollars. So 114 dollars a year is a joke compared to all the costs and expenses you have. In addition to the expenses for fees you also have to count in your time, travel costs etc. to promote World Ventures and to find new members.

We can savely assume therefore that up to 95% of all WV members/IRs didn't make money in this company at all but in fact lost money in it.

All of Rhykers BS will not change the fact that at least 95% of you guys will lose money in this pyramid scheme. Those are the facts. IF you are ok with that then please sign up!

BTW: In the WV document I took those numbers from there are a number of examples of people who made money with World Ventures. Please note that all of the examples were taken from the 3% highest earning people in the company and some even from the 1% highest earning people. Why didn't they take an example from the 85% who get less then 114 dollars the whole year? I bet you can figure it out for yourself... wink.gif

This post has been edited by SeriousJosh: May 25 2010, 06:03 AM
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dreamlife
post May 25 2010, 07:24 AM
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Josh,
The stats you share are clearly real.
The points you are sharing accurately reflect a lot of the "shadow"
of our industry, for sure!

But the questions remain:

1) 90% of the companies in this forum are full on ponzi's without products with cheap sites that will be gone within weeks or a few months.
2) Why are you focusing on a company that is respected in the industry, product driven, and of obvious quality, when there are so many other deals that are truly worthy of your wrath?!


It appears to the rest of us reading all this,
that there is a personal vendetta here against the co. and Rhyker,
obviously~!

If it were not the case, you would be all over the other threads,
exposing the dozens of cheapo waste of time deals that don't even
come close to World Ventures...

but you are NOT! WHY NOT?!?!?!?

What is REALLY going on here?! ohmy.gif

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Rhyker
post May 25 2010, 08:26 AM
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I dunno let's ask him ... cause I don't know what the guy's problem is.

Q: Is WorldVentures a pyramid scheme?
A: http://www.worldventurestruth.com/common-questions.php#1

Q: WorldVentures publishes an Income Disclosure Statement which shows that just under 30% of Representatives make any money--is it still a good opportunity?
A: http://www.worldventurestruth.com/common-questions.php#2




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SeriousJosh
post May 25 2010, 12:41 PM
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QUOTE (dreamlife @ May 25 2010, 04:24 PM) *
Josh,
The stats you share are clearly real.
The points you are sharing accurately reflect a lot of the "shadow"
of our industry, for sure!

Thank you for recognizing that my stats are real. I think that proves again that I know what I'm talking about.

QUOTE (dreamlife @ May 25 2010, 04:24 PM) *
But the questions remain:

1) 90% of the companies in this forum are full on ponzi's without products with cheap sites that will be gone within weeks or a few months.
2) Why are you focusing on a company that is respected in the industry, product driven, and of obvious quality, when there are so many other deals that are truly worthy of your wrath?!


It appears to the rest of us reading all this,
that there is a personal vendetta here against the co. and Rhyker,
obviously~!

If it were not the case, you would be all over the other threads,
exposing the dozens of cheapo waste of time deals that don't even
come close to World Ventures...

but you are NOT! WHY NOT?!?!?!?

What is REALLY going on here?! ohmy.gif

I agree that there are far worse scams in this forum than World Ventures. But that doesn't change the fact that World Venture is a scam too. 95% of all people getting involved with VW will lose their money. WV is even worse in some ways because you really need to work hard in this scheme. You don't just pay something and hope for the best. You actually have to work your ass off for this and even doing so will most likely lead to failure. You will feel bad and ashamed. You will feel like a loser. For me this is reason enough to warn people.

As far as your other questions are concerned: I do not have a personal vendetta against Rhyker or any scam he is promoting here. I'm active in more threads then just the two Rhyker is active in as you can easily check out for yourself.

This post has been edited by SeriousJosh: May 25 2010, 12:44 PM
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SeriousJosh
post May 25 2010, 12:51 PM
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QUOTE (Rhyker @ May 25 2010, 05:26 PM) *
Q: Is WorldVentures a pyramid scheme?
A: http://www.worldventurestruth.com/common-questions.php#1

I didn't expect WV to admit that they are a pyramid scheme. That doesn't change the fact that many people regard it as a pyramid scheme.

QUOTE (Rhyker @ May 25 2010, 05:26 PM) *
Q: WorldVentures publishes an Income Disclosure Statement which shows that just under 30% of Representatives make any money--is it still a good opportunity?
A: http://www.worldventurestruth.com/common-questions.php#2

Basically they stand by their enormous failure rate and just say that WV is not the right thing for most people. And that's exactly what I'm telling you:

WV is only going to pay out for very few of you (~5%). The big majority of you will work their asses off making next to no money at all. 95% of you will simply sponsor the 5% winners of the scheme by making the top 1% of the pyramide filthy rich. As I said before: Most of you need to be losers so a few can be winners. And that's about all you need to know about World Ventures. If you are ok with that then sign up!
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