I am trying to understand these Reverse Pension Plans (RPP). I recently learned of them here.

It does not seem that they can be legit or valid offers. The concept and the math does not seem to match.
I have googled for info about them. I have looked at many related sites. It does not add up right in my mind.

Maybe I do not have enough information to understand it. The RPP sites and forum posts document many thousands of people that have enrolled. They must see this as possible. Collectively it looks like that have collected millions of dollars from members in registration fees.

Maybe someone here has done some research on this and would be willing to share it here.

When I ask questions at a RPP thread, people may wish to defend the program that they have joined. I put this in a seperate thread, so it will not be specific to any current or proposed RPP. Please refrain from mentioning specific RPP programs here. I am trying to understand the validity of the concept, not which one to join.

I would appreciate anyone that can explain this to me. I would like to see some evidence that it is or is not a legit or valid concept.

According to US Laws, they don't exist. I tried looking them up but all I came to was Swiss Annuities, which is not even close to being the same.

The record remains that NONE of these programs has ever paid anyone...

As to them being possible, 2 lawyers say No. And other lawyers state they've never heard of them, and the concept sounds illegal. Mainly because they stated in their eyes, it's a form of fraud.

It has not made sense to me.

Basically they claim that they can create a pension contract and then can sell it right away to an investor at a discount to it's face value. There has been no appreciation or seasoning of the paper.

One example I saw used a $15,000 average cost to start each policy with a $200,000 value when it matures. They claim they can sell this at $120,000 (right after paying $15,000 for it) as the investors will make $80,000 when it matures.
If it takes an average of 30 years for these to mature the investor would average less than they would make putting it in a bank or money market. I do not see any investor wanting to do this.

This post has been edited by gpmac12: Aug 4 2007, 10:57 AM

Whether they're scams or not, the fact still remains that out of the 50 some odd of them that have been in existence since around 1999 NONE have ever paid out.

So it's a bad investment idea to begin with.

this threas is good,So I would like to know other opinion

Yes. I agree.
I figured I would get some comments both ways.
There are many people here that say they put money into them.
Maybe we will learn why.

Well, I admit that when the first one came out I was tempted too. It's a good thing I didn't invest in them though, because it looks like anyone who's put money into them has lost it.

Everyone says they're getting paid the referral fees, but this is the same as saying "I got paid $5000 for that e-mail from that company, I just need to wait for the minimum cashout of $2,000,000". Because if you notice, they don't offer an up front referral fee, they are playing on people's greed, they would get WAY more members if they paid out an upfront referral fee, thus they would get to their target much quicker.. That being said.. Be on the lookout for a new program that does JUST that because someone said it at this forum!

But yes, I was tempted to join one.. Back in 1999, it was called Angels something or other.. But it would have meant sending in the payment by mail, and I lost interest.. Thankfully I did.

Or I'd be out about $200 for trying them all out...

One company is estimating that it will cost 41,000 on average for the pension insurance policy.

They indicate they can pay the premium, after they mortgage the pension insurance contract (Seems backwards, as they do not actually have it yet, because it was not paid for.)

They compare mortgaging the pension insurance contract to mortgaging real property with an actual value of 200,000.
(Differences I see include: 1) The person mortgaging the real property actually has ownership of the real property 2) The real property already has value and is not waiting to mature.)

Sounds odd to me.
What I am hearing is something like this...
My neighbor knows a guy that has legal documents guaranteeing his house will be worth $200,000 dollars in 30-40 years. I go get a mortgage on this guys house (even before I own it) for $120,000 or 60% of the future value. Then I will go pay this guy $41,000 for the house. I pay my neighbor $55,000 because he told me about it.
There is 80,000 in future guaranteed equity gain in the contract, but that does not seem like enough earnings over such a long time frame to be worth the effort. Also there has to be interest due that would negate any equity gain.

That's EXACTLY what it's like.

This confirms that I am not the only one seeing it this way.



This post has been edited by gpmac12: Aug 4 2007, 01:46 PM

I got confused.
I could still access it from the other location, in the non-HYIP investment discussion folder, but there was no data.
I see the data is here when you look at it in the new location.

Unfortunate, it being moved as I doubt if the people that can answer my questions are in this section. The topic does not seem pertinent to a "Banking, Savings, CD's, Money Markets, Bonds & Retirement Planning" section.

I intended this to be a non-HYIP investment program discussion, specifically regarding Reverse Pension Plan (RPP) programs. I made this topic generic on purpose. I suspect it will not get the discussion participants it deserves here.
That is why I put it in the "Investment Programs (Non HYIP) All Investment Program discussion goes here. " section.

This post has been edited by gpmac12: Aug 4 2007, 04:46 PM

You have had several of us explain this to you. Exactly what part of RPP do you not understand?

If you would do a google search, you would find that they are real and people are selling their pension plans all the time and advertising on the net. There are companies that will even buy certain pensions discounted.

We Call it TEPS (traded endowment policies)...Very popular In EURO continents ...

Why do people surrender or sell with-profit policies?

The reasons are varied but are usually attributed to a change in circumstances such as redundancy, divorce or a change in mortgage arrangements.

In normal circumstances, it is best to continue with a with-profit endowment to maturity, but for various reasons this often does not happen.

It is important for anybody thinking about encashing a policy to consider all options. These are:

*
Surrendering the policy direct to the issuing life office.

*
Borrowing against the policy, either from the issuing life office or from a bank using the policy as security.

*
Making the policy 'paid up' which means no further premiums are payable on the policy, but reduced benefits will be received on death or maturity.

* Auctioning the policy

*
Selling the policy on the second-hand market.

Policyholders should also remember that if they surrender or sell their policy they will lose the benefit of the life assurance protection, and if their policy is with a mutual life office which subsequently demutualises they would lose the potential of any windfall payments.

The Market

Every year approximately £90 million is lost by people who surrender their unwanted endowment policies back to the life companies. Most people are not aware that there is a thriving second-hand market in these policies and a large number of market makers eager to purchase unwanted with-profit policies to sell on to individual investors or specialist investment funds.

Market makers are often prepared to pay a substantially higher price for these policies than the insurance companies surrender values. Somewhat surprisingly however, there can be a large variation in the offers made by the various market makers and therefore people who have made the right decision to sell rather than surrender, may not ultimately achieve the best price unless they make use of a service like independent regulated Financial Adviser specialising in TEPS.


Im Just Giving U the Information About The Main Thing Happens Here...The owner Of RPP Program using This Kind Of Opportunity To CREATE @ SCAM @ FORM A LARGE CAPITAL TO TAKE PART IN THIS OPPS (Well it's not cheap to buy a good policies)....Well ..No ONE KNOWS RITE?....What Im trying To Say Is ..This Investment@ Opportunity Is LEGAL ..But If U r dealing With The Right "BROKERS" ...

In my research I noticed that the secondary market seems to only be for seasoned policies. Seasoned being at least 5 to 7 years old policies. They seem to be buying only "in profit" policies. It takes years for them to get to that state.

When a person cashes in the policy, it seems that they are taking a loss. It is explained that people do this for various reasons, including emergencies or lifestyle changes. If the policy is in profit, they can take less of a loss by selling it on the secondary market. If it is not in profit the insurance company still has to let them cash it in, but at a deep discount.

It does not makes sense that an investor would pay more than what is paid for the policy, right after it is purchased. If they told people they would get their money in 5-7 years, it may sound real.

Advertise With MMG. Click Here Now To Find Out How.